High use/need items from cell phones to Heat pumps to refrigerators, should not stop working within a few years. Heat pumps and Refrigerators should last for decades. We have had both go bad in less than 4 years. This is a hugely expensive issue that is creating hardships for people who can barely afford these necessities in the first place.
27 Likes
I completely agree. This is just another way to scam people out of their money. We know these companies have the technology to make things last longer.
5 Likes
Not to mention the ecological burden to the planet of what happens to all the materials in these appliances. The “trash” burden would be reduced enormously if things lasted (like they used to) 15-25 years. Congress could fix that with the stroke of a pen.
4 Likes
How do we implement it? My first thought goes to the introduction of longevity ratings that tie into taxes or other manufacturer incentives.
One inherent risk to these types of initiatives is over-regulation—that the government stepping into this space will add bureaucratic processes that slow progress or halt free-market innovation altogether.
The EU recently entered into a similar discussion with it’s “Right to Repair” initiative targeting cell phones in particular. Rather than providing financial incentives, they mandated that cell phone manufacturers must ensure availability of spare parts (seven years), software updates (five years), battery durability (80% capacity after 800 cycles), and device robustness (e.g., surviving 45 drops). Companies who do not comply are not fined or excluded from tax incentives, but banned from selling their products within the EU (an even harsher disincentive).
While this may work for cell-phone manufacturers, as it’s a somewhat monopolized industry (requiring higher levels of capital to break into), it may be argued that this longevity model may weigh in favor of larger, more financially capable companies able to keep a 7-year stockpile of materials and guaranteed 5-year window of support —while disadvantaging startups without as much capital to make that promise. My final thoughts:
- I love the idea—we NEED to do something about this (not just from an ecological/waste standpoint, but consumer protection standpoint as well),
- I think we should further refine this proposal so that it excludes the banning of products that are not compliant, but instead: a. requires all qualifying products to clearly identify their longevity, and b. provides financial incentives for those who are able to comply (meaning while it may offer preference to larger companies, those with the greatest capital and amount of money to spend on it will be able to save money by increasing the longevity of their premium, more expensive products—while those with less capital to enter the market with will continue to be able to do so by creating cheaper alternatives with lower longevity promises).
What do you think? I’d love to hear others build on the strengths and weaknesses of this argument
2 Likes
I suggest that if you want to stop selling parts/servicing a product before the (e.g., 10-year) window is up, you’d have to release a technical data pack so your customer to repair it themselves.
For example, if a refrigerator gets dumped by the manufacturer, the customer should be able to take the manufacturers specs to a circuit printer to replace the control board, same idea for plastic moldings, steel stampings, etc.
This doesn’t take much money to do, so a failing small businesses would be able to make these concessions. Big businesses would kvetch, “we can’t give away the info on this part, we’re still using it in a newer model”. Well then, you could’ve kept stocking it.
One problem I expect to pop up is that big companies would use lawfare to bankrupt small competitors as a way to steal their IP. I don’t know for sure how big a problem this would be, since at least the ill-gotten IP would be public.
If this angle interests anyone reading, please think of ways to minimize this problem, and any problems I missed.
2 Likes
100% agreed. i remember my mom had a washing machine that lasted almost 25 yrs. I use to tease her about it. Refrigerators lasted at least 15 yrs or even more. And you can still find a 10-15 yr old fridge in people gorages to this day. But we have had to replace our washer and dryer every 5 yrs or less for the past 15yrs. Our fridge has been replaced 3 times in the past 20 yrs. We sold a 2 ton A/C to a friend because we ditched the oil heater an purchased a heat pump. This was 10 yrs ago. We have put about $4000. in repairs on our Train heat pump. Our friend has not one time had a repairman for her oil heater or the A/C. What is wrong is obvious I think and I totally 100% agree with you.
Thanks for bringing it up
One of my points above is that our older model machines did not break down. I have a tractor that is 32 yrs old. I bought it used the folks died that had it earlier. I don’t do anything. We have a John Deere that is 14 yrs old and have had it worked on for several things and still has a water leak. You have heard the saying “They don’t make things like they use to” Thats what Im talking about. If companies want to sell the sufisticated electronic equipment than do that rich folks will love it and can afford to replace it every 4 yrs. But make the simple manual working equipment for the less fortunate or even the more frugle folks who don’t need to have brand new things every few yrs to keep up wth the Jones’s. You don’t have to risk safety, just bells and whistles. The older stuff was just built to last, not to break down so the company always has a turn over of buyers. In my humble oinion it is all about the money and nothing more. These companies don’t care about quality as long as it outlasts the warranty. I had one service guy explain that some of the electronics are actually designed to quite after a certain number of washes and dries. So yes they can make these appliances last longer than they do. It is by design that they need repair after so much time or use. Another repair guy says that the reason why it costs so much to have the items repaired as it is cheaper for us to just replace it and that keeps the manufacturers from having to keep so many spare parts on hand. That too makes sense if you think about it doesn’t it.
The consumers are not dumb but I sure don’t know what to do about it. Who to vote for for change in this area. And complaining never fixed anything. So hopefully someone in here can come up with something to solve this issue. Without hurting businesses and or manufacturers but the fat cats at the top only need so much profit to live on and I am by no means a socialist but greed can also be a destroyer. Just sayin…
Karen, I do not believe that your sentence describes the matter accurately, or includes a possible solution, …
=====================
Kristy, I believe that the main reason for this, is because of the massive money printing by the U.S. government. This may sound a bit far-fetched but I will attempt to explain the connections in a meaningful analogy below.
-
Govt agrees to fund a Guatemalan sex-change project through USAID. Once this is agreed to, the money is borrowed into existence and sent down there to fund the project.
-
Because there are a few more extra dollars that suddenly went into circulation to pay for the project, the value of EVERY dollar across the entire planet just went down a micro-fraction of a percent in purchasing power. [This is because of the laws of supply and demand – if there are more dollars in circulation, they are worth less due to over-abundance, and if there are less dollars, they are worth more due to scarcity] So, yesterday a dollar had a dollar’s worth of purchasing power but today, after the new money creation, all dollars now only have 99 cents purchasing power. (I know the example is extreme and corny but just focus on the forces at play instead of the stupidity of the analogy).
-
Because the dollar’s value went down 1 cent in purchasing power, the washing machine being manufactured on the opposite side of the planet will now need 1 cent added to the final price in order for the manufacturer to break even on the wealth that he expected to earn from selling the washer. So he jacks up the price by 1 cent.
-
Steps 1-3 happen multiple times and the manufacturer realizes that if he keeps raising his price by a penny, he will loose out on sales to his nearest competitor, who is now pricing his washer a few cents cheaper. Now he has to come up with another plan, keeping his price fixed by having to make up for the next 1 cent loss.
-
The CFO of the company calls for a meeting with everyone and asks what they can do to reduce the cost of the washing machine by 1 cent.
-
The Engineers step in and say that they could replace all of the wiring harnesses in the washing machine with a lighter gauge wire (using less copper) and save a few cents there. They also state that they can save a few more cents by replacing the currently-used metal widgits with cheaper plastic widgits. Several other things are suggested, which further reduces the overall costs of the washer. The CFO agrees and they come out with the exact same washing machine model, but made with cheaper internal parts. The company is good for a while on steps 1-3, now selling a cheaper washer, until the cheapening dollar catches up with the company’s bottom line again, and they have to have another cost-savings meeting to find even more pennies.
-
in the mean time, after only a year or two, the washing machines start failing because the wiring harness burns out prematurely, or the plastic widgits break from unexpected stresses on it, etc. So, as you can see, what happened was this – the original washing machine blueprints were created using precision engineering principles and measurements, accounting for exact forces like: how thick a copper wire should be to handle X amount of current, in Y fashion, over Z # of years — or — how thick a metal widgit needs to be to handle Force A against Force B for C # of revolutions over time…
So in that way, blueprints from an engineering desk take all of its associated parts into account in relation to all of the other parts in the original design (from both a mathematical and a physical perspective). In this way, the washer was ideally constructed when following the exact engineering specs – it could not have been any better assembled based on the parts called for in the original design. The problem always happens later, when they started cheapening the parts and deviating from the original blueprint designs without recalculating the physics behind the changes in relation to all of the other related parts, or in attribute changes in materials, like going from metals to plastics. These deviations cheapen and weaken the washing machine over time and their operating life depreciates, like you are now seeing happen.
=========================
Q: So how do you fix the growing incidents of faulty washing machines (and all other appliances)?
A: You keep the government from inflating your currency by printing free dollars into existence and spending it on useless projects and wasteful spending. The you replace the current fiat dollar with a new paper and digital currency backed by precious metals (and other U.S. commodities), like our Constitution described. Once this is done, washing machines should no longer break after only a few years because the washing machine manufacturer will no longer be in the business of chasing pennies just to break even on sales, and can focus more on quality improvements and price competition with other washing machine makers.
I hope this helps to expalin what is going on with these appliances, why it is happening, and where we might focus our efforts in correcting the issue. 
1 Like
Not to mention the massive amounts of unnecessary landfill space these appliances take.
1 Like
The problem you describe would happen some regardless of inflation. I’m not minimizing inflation as a problem of course; price hike hesitancy supercharges the issue.
Lemon markets are normally corrected by new players coming in with quality as a core concern and snatching market share from complacent dinosaurs. The lower the entry barriers and the higher the product throughput, the faster this happens.
You can lower entry barriers by deregulation, although industries like major appliances, vehicles, and computer hardware have such massive technical entry barriers that it’s still extremely difficult to break in, even assuming a truly free market.
Overturning Dodge v Ford (in which the Mich. Court ruled that not maximizing current profits is illegal) would lower pressure to debase your product.
A half-baked idea I’ve had is to require publicly traded companies to give the employees some representation on the board of directors, so people who fundamentally care about long-term stability have a voice. I realize this could devolve into least-common-denominator union thuggery though, so the details would need to be carefully thought through.
JackO. we are moving into a new economy. None of the old rules will apply anymore. The fiat Federal Reserve Note is dead. It is worthless. Maritime/British law is dead and we are moving back to the law the land. We will be creating a new paper and digital currency that is backed by tangible assets, removing inflation.
Your post agrees with my post,
The olde is finally dead; and we are paving way for the new.
1 Like
Hope you’re right about ditching the fed. We’re obviously in agreement on the big picture.
It’s good that as individuals, we’re focusing on different aspects of the problems. That should help us avoid blind spots as a group.
Since you brought up massively changing the monetary system, have you read my post shilling diamonds as a replacement currency?
When Rome burned, it burned from the outside in, and from every direction. 
Great article here: The Great Lightbulb Conspiracy - IEEE Spectrum
Great article: The Great Lightbulb Conspiracy - IEEE Spectrum
I agree entirely with the principles of “Right to Repair.” Manufacturers should provide access to repair manuals and parts lists. Repair parts should either be provided by the manufacturer for a reasonable period or part specifications should be available for third parties to manufacture OEM parts.
2 Likes