End property taxes!

Maybe you should take your own advice. You are obviously ignorant of the law and history of the country. Maybe do 2 seconds of research before you try to insult and degrade someone that’s spent more time studying the Constitution, history, and law than you have spent in school.

Property taxes are legal, there is nothing that prohibits them. Seizures only occur when people fail to pay their taxes and it’s lawful to seize property when debt is owed.

The federal government isn’t involved in property taxes, they are a state and county issue. Demanding that the federal government infringe on state rights and powers is a violation of the 9th Amendment and the very thing the founders opposed. The federal government is supposed to be the smallest and weakest form of government in the country, each state is its own country, but they gave up certain rights/abilities to a federal system because united they were stronger and having certain things uniform throughout was beneficial. Let’s stop trying to give the federal government more power. I don’t like property tax. I don’t think it should be legal to tax something you own every single year, they want to do a 1 time property tax, fine, but to tax the same thing year after year is stupid and I hate it. Doesn’t mean it is illegal or unconstitutional.

Let me help you with your research:
The History of Property Taxes - PropLogix (Scroll down to the US part)

Understanding property tax rates | Empower

Property Taxes | Constitution Annotated | Congress.gov | Library of Congress

Many laws on the books are legal – until they are not. It was once legal to own slaves – now its not. Even back in the day, people like you argued that owning slaves was legal – until it wasn’t. Your position holds no water…Your argument that, just because something is legal now, it should always be considered valid law, worthy of support. Wrong – some laws should be abolished, especially if they fly in the face of the Constitution… I am arguing for the removal of property taxation and the subsequent seizing of homes, from the authority of county governments. Again I claim that the act of seizing homes for ‘back taxes’ is in direct violation of the Fourth Amendment to the Constitution (even though this arguement was defeated in prior judicial rulings). I disagree with the ruling, and think that it should be revisited under evidence provided below. I know it will probably get your dander into a tizzy to hear this fact, but even the Supreme Court can get it wrong. Now breathe calmly…deeply.

Yes, I have done plenty of digging and looked at the many arguments for and against property taxes, most all of which claim that it is legal. The Supremacy Clause, however, states that if laws are in conflict, the law of a higher authority can preempt the law of a lower authority if the superiority of the former is stated expressly or even implied.

That being the case…let’s use the Constitution’s Fourth Amendment (being the higher authority) to “imply” that State/County laws (being the lower authority) seizing their homes for tax debts, is UNCONSTITUTIONAL. Here we go, …(and remember to keep the logic of your argument for county seizure of homes within the confines of the happy little green box that I painted for you, as it is the supreme law of the land)…

Now, from what seems clear (from my two seconds of research and a healthy application of proper English), the Supremacy Clause may be applied, such that, county governements cannot seize homes for county debts without mitigating the threat to the security of the person having their home taken from them. Currently, no such security is given…someone owes $500 on ‘back taxes, the state seizes their $100k home, leaves the person and their belongings out on the street, and simply replies with “its just the law’. (And don’t pull “but its ‘reasonable’”, from out of your backside).

Unless you can demonstrate where that “security” might exist, where a person can enjoy being secure in said home (like our Constitution insists), I really dont think you have an argument. Wondering every year if the county is going to steal your home for unrealized property valuations which may not be affordable or even payable, is simply NOT SECURITY. This is not complicatedl law – its simple English and simple logic, no matter how much you might want to glorify or justify unconstitutional statism, or your grandeous opinions of self-importance.

Thus, without bloviating on extensive case law, color of law, prior precedence, etc, simply drop a nice quaint bit of proof that state/county debt law can override the fourth amendment of the constitution. The text in it is quite straight-forward (Queen’s English, even). Counter it now – don’t just make noise and call it a counter-arguement. Tell the world right now how the underlined text above, in the Fourth Amendment DOES NOT mean what it says, or secretly means something entirely different. I don’t see any conditions on the amendment, like “People should be secure in their homes – but only if they make eternal extortion payments to the County Government.” I dont see any conditions on that 4th Amendment security promise – like “you can be secure in your home, but only if you dont owe any debts.” It’s not in there. The text that exists is so precise and short that you can’t invent an exception to it, can you? You can’t twist it. It is what it is – it must really trouble you, huh? And since the Constitution already penned it (expressly without any exceptions or conditional clauses), the State/County cant step in and add conditions to it. They simply have to CONFORM to it. Teeth grinding yet?

In the mean time stop telling the world that it is NOT a Constitutional issue, and that states can openly violate the Constitution in this regard, or I will continue to tell you that you are neck-deep FULL OF IT. And since I know that you might reply with a very long diatribe of self-gratification, throwing in a few internet links defending state-sponsored theft, and perhaps a lecture on why laws should stay as they are, because you were always used to them staying that way in the past, I will end the exchange and bid you a nice day. :face_with_monocle:

PS - I dont recall you being in any of my computer engineering classes, so I cant say how long you have been staring at your own law books – but I am sure happy to have had a discussion with something that YOU are supposedly familiar with…I wont bore you with exacting and mundane engineering concepts.

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How about you read the 2nd half of the 4th amendment instead of just the first two lines. You know, the part that says things can be seized when supported by an oath or affirmation (court order), which is how everything gets seized.

The amendment you argue so intensely for, is the same one that says you can seize stuff. It has nothing to do with what tax is or isn’t legal and it explicitly states property and people can be seized.

So it seems you have a problem with the 4th amendment and want that changed, so too bad for you, that requires a constitutional amendment. The federal government can’t amend the constitution, it takes 3/4 of the states to do that. Therefore, it’s a state issue.

You’ve made no valid argument for property tax being illegal or unconstitutional and no valid argument that for property not being able to be seized. When someone break the law (not paying taxes is a crime), the party that has been damaged can seek a judge out to rectify the issue. In this case, if someone isn’t paying their property tax, a judge can order that the property be seized until the issue is resolved.

You make a good point that this is a local, not federal issue. However, I have to agree that property tax can become burdensome for elderly, disabled, etc. This can also become a burden if property values increase in an area and the owner is now taxed unreasonably because the value went up. Several people pointed out that what they now pay in property tax is more than rent would cost.

Because these taxes are needed for local resources, could this be accomplished in a different way? Limit the tax to when a property is bought/sold? Or, tax is based on the value when it was purchased? I like your idea for a cap on years paid and agree that would incentivize staying in a community.

I think it would be a great idea to impose these taxes on all who live in the area (not just property owners). One of the issues where I live is that high-density housing has increased drastically so the proportion of homeowners to renters has also changed. Everybody gets to vote on these taxes and renters have no incentive not to vote for more money to school levies and everything else because they will not be paying for it. If everybody to pay for it, there would be increased community awareness and relief for single-family homeowners. My question would be how to collect these taxes from everybody in a district?

I’m new and don’t know how to submit an idea

So here is mine

Example of problem…
DOD just failed their 7th annual audit.

Solution

Any audit that is failed shall immediately have that exact amount deleted from their budget until the amount is perfectly explained and vetted.

Comment

Watch how fast they “identify “ where the money actually went … now comes the fun part … drill deep into the no doubt dark ops money and shut down these revealed companies.

AMEN!! You are right, it IS unreasonable seizure. It DOES violate the Constitution. I’ve never heard anyone point that out before, Kudos. don’t waste your breath saying anything else to S. C. Novak - they are obviously someone that doesn’t believe in true freedom, and they enjoy justifying the government stealing from their own pocket, and justifying government seizures. You cannot reason with people that think that way. But very few people think that way.

See! You strayed out of the green line I painted for you. So you see dear, you failed to defend your position and went out into the weeds on an elementary school display of how amendments to the Constitution are performed – and because of your “trip through the weeds”, we now suddenly have to go ask the local government for permission if it would kindly stop generating its source of annual income by seizing houses – which will end up flying as high an iron brick. The problem still remains: WE STILL HAVE NO RIGHTS TO BE SECURE IN OUR HOMES, at the county level. I am of the position that this needs to be corrected immediately, and that if it needs to go to the Supreme Court again – even to be reviewed under new SCOTUS members who are not flaming socialists or statists, so be it.

However this issue might somehow/some day be resolved, my quaint mission to bring this issue to the light of a public forum (even to pick up a couple of crusty OCD statists along the way) has been accomplished – and whether it ever dawned on you or not, that you were used as a backboard to further amplify the dilemma that all Americans fac about being secure in their own homes, is really a rather dry but humorous irony.

I do appreciate your taking the time to assist me with raising this concern openly and publicly, while showing the audience what arguments we face as a nation, with statists who wish to keep property taxes in place. And I stand firm in the understanding likely shared by our Forefathers that debts (whether real or imagined) should not cause people to be thrown out of their homes. Even the federal-level IRS seems to have agreed in the past (funny why that is) that a person’s primary residence should not be seized because of ‘back taxes’; yet a county government can do it?

Nevertheless, I rest my case and look forward to it getting resolved by overwhelming agreement and action by the American People. Thank you for serving as my backboard. I think this horse (under this forum of Property Taxes) has been thoroughly ‘whoopped’. Now you can go back to reading your dusty law book dear. And if you manage to create a policy suggestion in another forum, I would love to see what you propose and would eagerly reply there as well. Have a nice day. :grin:

Here is a similar policy post Mark, covering that very topic…

Thanks.

I can remember hearing my grandfather back in the early 60s , saying that the govt was stealing his money, by making him pay property tax over again, every year.
I believed him then,I believe it still to this day.

We must force the govt. To STOP the theft of American citizens, by means of repeated taxes on the same thing, ie; Land, Home, Vehicle

I’m against income tax as well, and any hidden taxes. So we’re mostly in agreement there.
A man should own his land.
A man should own his labor.
Otherwise, as you said, he’s a slave.
I don’t think there should be any taxes. The US survived on tariffs, which I’m against as well. But at least it wasn’t a direct tax on the people.
My point about the consumption tax was for those who think we must maintain our current level of bureaucracy. The consumption tax maintains it without the land tax. Texas already doesn’t have an income tax on the state level, but it’d be nice (less tyrannical) to not have it on the national level as well.