End property taxes!

Many laws on the books are legal – until they are not. It was once legal to own slaves – now its not. Even back in the day, people like you argued that owning slaves was legal – until it wasn’t. Your position holds no water…Your argument that, just because something is legal now, it should always be considered valid law, worthy of support. Wrong – some laws should be abolished, especially if they fly in the face of the Constitution… I am arguing for the removal of property taxation and the subsequent seizing of homes, from the authority of county governments. Again I claim that the act of seizing homes for ‘back taxes’ is in direct violation of the Fourth Amendment to the Constitution (even though this arguement was defeated in prior judicial rulings). I disagree with the ruling, and think that it should be revisited under evidence provided below. I know it will probably get your dander into a tizzy to hear this fact, but even the Supreme Court can get it wrong. Now breathe calmly…deeply.

Yes, I have done plenty of digging and looked at the many arguments for and against property taxes, most all of which claim that it is legal. The Supremacy Clause, however, states that if laws are in conflict, the law of a higher authority can preempt the law of a lower authority if the superiority of the former is stated expressly or even implied.

That being the case…let’s use the Constitution’s Fourth Amendment (being the higher authority) to “imply” that State/County laws (being the lower authority) seizing their homes for tax debts, is UNCONSTITUTIONAL. Here we go, …(and remember to keep the logic of your argument for county seizure of homes within the confines of the happy little green box that I painted for you, as it is the supreme law of the land)…

Now, from what seems clear (from my two seconds of research and a healthy application of proper English), the Supremacy Clause may be applied, such that, county governements cannot seize homes for county debts without mitigating the threat to the security of the person having their home taken from them. Currently, no such security is given…someone owes $500 on ‘back taxes, the state seizes their $100k home, leaves the person and their belongings out on the street, and simply replies with “its just the law’. (And don’t pull “but its ‘reasonable’”, from out of your backside).

Unless you can demonstrate where that “security” might exist, where a person can enjoy being secure in said home (like our Constitution insists), I really dont think you have an argument. Wondering every year if the county is going to steal your home for unrealized property valuations which may not be affordable or even payable, is simply NOT SECURITY. This is not complicatedl law – its simple English and simple logic, no matter how much you might want to glorify or justify unconstitutional statism, or your grandeous opinions of self-importance.

Thus, without bloviating on extensive case law, color of law, prior precedence, etc, simply drop a nice quaint bit of proof that state/county debt law can override the fourth amendment of the constitution. The text in it is quite straight-forward (Queen’s English, even). Counter it now – don’t just make noise and call it a counter-arguement. Tell the world right now how the underlined text above, in the Fourth Amendment DOES NOT mean what it says, or secretly means something entirely different. I don’t see any conditions on the amendment, like “People should be secure in their homes – but only if they make eternal extortion payments to the County Government.” I dont see any conditions on that 4th Amendment security promise – like “you can be secure in your home, but only if you dont owe any debts.” It’s not in there. The text that exists is so precise and short that you can’t invent an exception to it, can you? You can’t twist it. It is what it is – it must really trouble you, huh? And since the Constitution already penned it (expressly without any exceptions or conditional clauses), the State/County cant step in and add conditions to it. They simply have to CONFORM to it. Teeth grinding yet?

In the mean time stop telling the world that it is NOT a Constitutional issue, and that states can openly violate the Constitution in this regard, or I will continue to tell you that you are neck-deep FULL OF IT. And since I know that you might reply with a very long diatribe of self-gratification, throwing in a few internet links defending state-sponsored theft, and perhaps a lecture on why laws should stay as they are, because you were always used to them staying that way in the past, I will end the exchange and bid you a nice day. :face_with_monocle:

PS - I dont recall you being in any of my computer engineering classes, so I cant say how long you have been staring at your own law books – but I am sure happy to have had a discussion with something that YOU are supposedly familiar with…I wont bore you with exacting and mundane engineering concepts.

2 Likes

How about you read the 2nd half of the 4th amendment instead of just the first two lines. You know, the part that says things can be seized when supported by an oath or affirmation (court order), which is how everything gets seized.

The amendment you argue so intensely for, is the same one that says you can seize stuff. It has nothing to do with what tax is or isn’t legal and it explicitly states property and people can be seized.

So it seems you have a problem with the 4th amendment and want that changed, so too bad for you, that requires a constitutional amendment. The federal government can’t amend the constitution, it takes 3/4 of the states to do that. Therefore, it’s a state issue.

You’ve made no valid argument for property tax being illegal or unconstitutional and no valid argument that for property not being able to be seized. When someone break the law (not paying taxes is a crime), the party that has been damaged can seek a judge out to rectify the issue. In this case, if someone isn’t paying their property tax, a judge can order that the property be seized until the issue is resolved.

I’m new and don’t know how to submit an idea

So here is mine

Example of problem…
DOD just failed their 7th annual audit.

Solution

Any audit that is failed shall immediately have that exact amount deleted from their budget until the amount is perfectly explained and vetted.

Comment

Watch how fast they “identify “ where the money actually went … now comes the fun part … drill deep into the no doubt dark ops money and shut down these revealed companies.

AMEN!! You are right, it IS unreasonable seizure. It DOES violate the Constitution. I’ve never heard anyone point that out before, Kudos. don’t waste your breath saying anything else to S. C. Novak - they are obviously someone that doesn’t believe in true freedom, and they enjoy justifying the government stealing from their own pocket, and justifying government seizures. You cannot reason with people that think that way. But very few people think that way.

1 Like

See! You strayed out of the green line I painted for you. So you see dear, you failed to defend your position and went out into the weeds on an elementary school display of how amendments to the Constitution are performed – and because of your “trip through the weeds”, we now suddenly have to go ask the local government for permission if it would kindly stop generating its source of annual income by seizing houses – which will end up flying as high an iron brick. The problem still remains: WE STILL HAVE NO RIGHTS TO BE SECURE IN OUR HOMES, at the county level. I am of the position that this needs to be corrected immediately, and that if it needs to go to the Supreme Court again – even to be reviewed under new SCOTUS members who are not flaming socialists or statists, so be it.

However this issue might somehow/some day be resolved, my quaint mission to bring this issue to the light of a public forum (even to pick up a couple of crusty OCD statists along the way) has been accomplished – and whether it ever dawned on you or not, that you were used as a backboard to further amplify the dilemma that all Americans fac about being secure in their own homes, is really a rather dry but humorous irony.

I do appreciate your taking the time to assist me with raising this concern openly and publicly, while showing the audience what arguments we face as a nation, with statists who wish to keep property taxes in place. And I stand firm in the understanding likely shared by our Forefathers that debts (whether real or imagined) should not cause people to be thrown out of their homes. Even the federal-level IRS seems to have agreed in the past (funny why that is) that a person’s primary residence should not be seized because of ‘back taxes’; yet a county government can do it?

Nevertheless, I rest my case and look forward to it getting resolved by overwhelming agreement and action by the American People. Thank you for serving as my backboard. I think this horse (under this forum of Property Taxes) has been thoroughly ‘whoopped’. Now you can go back to reading your dusty law book dear. And if you manage to create a policy suggestion in another forum, I would love to see what you propose and would eagerly reply there as well. Have a nice day. :grin:

1 Like

Here is a similar policy post Mark, covering that very topic…

Thanks.

2 Likes

I can remember hearing my grandfather back in the early 60s , saying that the govt was stealing his money, by making him pay property tax over again, every year.
I believed him then,I believe it still to this day.

We must force the govt. To STOP the theft of American citizens, by means of repeated taxes on the same thing, ie; Land, Home, Vehicle

3 Likes

I’m against income tax as well, and any hidden taxes. So we’re mostly in agreement there.
A man should own his land.
A man should own his labor.
Otherwise, as you said, he’s a slave.
I don’t think there should be any taxes. The US survived on tariffs, which I’m against as well. But at least it wasn’t a direct tax on the people.
My point about the consumption tax was for those who think we must maintain our current level of bureaucracy. The consumption tax maintains it without the land tax. Texas already doesn’t have an income tax on the state level, but it’d be nice (less tyrannical) to not have it on the national level as well.

1 Like

Yes, this tax is out of control, seniors certainly can’t afford high property tax on a fixed income and the people have been suffering with inflation in the past 4 years. I am sure the property tax is overinflated too like everything else this government does.

2 Likes

This is insane. Property taxes are what pay for roads, schools, etc.for people who are complaining about property taxes after you own your home you knew this and should have saved for it. I can’t believe this is even a thought. Without taxes nothing gets paid for. Who is going to pay the town to plow your roads? This has to be the worst idea on here. Sorry

My 2 cents

Modern Property Ownership and Constitutional Principles

The current system of property ownership in the United States, governed by deeds and contingent on property taxes, fundamentally contradicts the principles of absolute property rights enshrined in the Constitution. The Fifth Amendment explicitly protects individuals from being deprived of property without due process, and yet the modern framework conditions ownership on the perpetual payment of taxes. This effectively transforms a right into a privilege, forcing landowners into a system of ongoing financial obligations akin to usury.

Moreover, the failure to fully disclose these conditions at the time of property transactions raises serious ethical and legal questions about informed consent. Many Americans are unaware that their deeds do not confer true ownership but rather a conditional right, perpetually subject to government authority through taxation and regulation.

This structure not only undermines the concept of property sovereignty but also conflicts with the original intent of land patents, which once granted absolute and irrevocable ownership. Returning to a land patent-based system, or at the very least reforming the deed system to ensure transparency and fairness, is essential to restore property rights and align modern practices with the Constitution’s guarantees. True ownership must not be contingent on fees, taxes, or threats of forfeiture; it must be an inalienable right, as envisioned by the founders.

2 Likes

PRQ Homesteading on BBS Radio 1PM Every Saturday 1:00 PM Eastern
The Awakening Wave Show Every other Saturday 3PM Eastern
We are homesteading our Properties tune in and learn how,

Love this Topic!

Require local gov. to submit quarterly itemized payables in order for voters / home owners to know how to allocate projects & From where? Does my opinion make sense?

Property taxes were in the top 5 worst ideas ever. To give a bunch of inept local politicians the power to make decisions on how to run a school system and basically give them a blank check is complete nonsense. They built Taj Mahal school buildings and neglect the students and teachers. We need to eliminate this system and use technology and the privet sector to allow good teachers to be rewarded and bad teachers to find a different profession.

2 Likes

Please especially for those of us that’s paid off our homes and are retired

1 Like

Please see Article V for this definition.
This how Amendment 16 can be Repealed. This will end Direct Taxation like Property, Income and other unequal Taxation. Have a Blessed Day

1 Like

It makes sense from an accountability perspective but I dont think grandma wants to sit down next to her medications and read through the quarterly report about how her property taxes are 1% lower because they stopped funding on a bridge 20 miles away, in a place she’s never even driven. I think it might be time to get that constantly reappearing annual property tax burden off grandma so she can better pay for her outrageous medicines, We can find other non-grandma revenue streams to plug such a hole, don’t you agree? :slight_smile:

Spoken like a true self-absorbed property tax assessor living in a rental house, enjoying county-level freebees! :money_mouth_face: :nauseated_face:

That is precisely my point as well. Property tax extortion needs to be fixed at the federal level; since the states over-stepped their rights the moment they “invented” property taxes and removed the right for persons “to be secure in their homes” under threat of forced home seizure and extortion payments based on conjured-up yearly debt placed on unrealized property values.

This isn’t about how stuff gets funded – its about how Americans are being robbed of their wealth and homes. Those who argue the financial side of this American Theft, are probably benifiting financially in some way for this disgusting annual extortion of wealth to continue, at the expense of Elder-American Security…and their argument in defense of continuing property taxation is the same lame exuse used by all of them – them, pretending to be ‘brain-injured’ or mentally retarded, and unable to entertain the possibility that other resources could be found, instead of stealing grandma’s house for that critically needed $500 in back taxes. They are starting to sound like that ever-repeating radio song that instantly causes everyone in the area to reach toward the radio knob at the same time, for an immediate “station change”.

UPDATE: And hot off the presses…a brand new policy proposal was just now created to address the many concerns in this forum. A link to this proposal is provided below:

2 Likes

It concerns me that retired fixed income homeowners are challenged with the bulk of their property taxes going towards the school systems.
Consider removing the portion of the taxes going to fund schools from retired homeowners or those without children or those who homeschool their children. Sales tax, utilities, annd other taxes are already very high. Eliminating taxes in one major area to then turn around and increase taxes in several others will not solve the problem. How are we going to increase American wealth if low income never increases. Make America rich and wealthy again by eliminating the burdening property tax.

1 Like