RIGHT TO MATERNAL/FETAL HEALTHCARE & EDUCATION to stabilize the abortion issue

FACTCHECK to the claim that abortion is a “states issue, not a federal issue” and to “take the matter up with your state legislature.”

This is a huge misconception.

The one FACT that BOTH pro-life and pro-choice leaders agree on, is that the idea of federal abortion-related provisions are constitutional, as they are (1) aligned with the 5th, 10th and 14th amendments to protect every “PERSON” (which can be the woman or the unborn child) from being deprived of their “life, liberty or property” without “due process” and allow the federal government to regulate matters of “inter-state commerce” and (2) are consistent with related laws and regulations that have already been either proposed/voted on by Congress (such as Women’s Health Protection Act, Protect Babies Born Alive Act, Pain-Capable Unborn Child Protection Act, and the Comstock Act), affirmed as constitutional by Trump’s conservative-majority Supreme Court (such as ACA and EMTALA) and/or have already been in effect for years (such as the federal ban on Partial Birth abortions). In the Dobbs decision, the concurring opinion specifically said that abortion related laws were up to “lawmakers” from BOTH “states” AND “Congress” to enact.

The advent of inter-state mail-order pills, shield laws and abortion sanctuary states means that if abortion wasn’t a matter of inter-state commerce before, eligible for federal regulation per the constitution, then it is now. Besides, we have already seen what happens to women and unborn children, when left unprotected by basic, federal safeguards. The lack of an adequate state response to those harms going on, constitutionally necessitates federal intervention.

In fact, here is the Supreme Court Dobbs concurring opinion:

Ashley - the mere fact that your proposal has caused so many diverse comments is both extraordinary and demonstrative of how divisive this issue is.

Personally, I think the concept is brilliant. Obviously you have given this a great deal of thought and have come up with a solution that may not have been on anyone’s radar screen. Excellent work. Perhaps with a little tweaking you can get most people onboard.

A well written piece of legislation that offers providers and patients protection from civil and criminal penalties in those specific situations appears to me to be about the solution to a problem that otherwise will simply not go away. Nice job!

I have sent your policy suggestion to Amaryllis and to DJT as you requested!

Thank you @OttenElias ! And thanks for complimenting my proposal! It was nice to read your DM saying “Wow! Fantastic, beautifully said, amazingly researched, supremely intelligent and wise!” and I appreciate you sharing your enthusiasm about it with the Trump team.

I suggest sterilizing the person getting the abortion and also the person paying for it.

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I commend you Ms. Luna for the depth of your understanding this issue, and my comments are:

All human issues are essentially complicated and being in local politics for 30+ yrs, I’ve concluded that principles are the guiding standards, whereas legislative attempts to encompass every issue falls into bureaucratic morasses that eventually paralyze any action. Life is too complicated to legislate.

On abortion, I hold that life is sacred, and that is the fundamental precept in guiding any action on child birth. However, nothing can be mandated as either black or white given life’s complications, and therefore, laws must allow for extremely mitigating circumstances.

Although Mr. Trump holds that abortions may be considered in cases of incest or rape, still every case can be different and must be examined closely to ensure that life’s sanctity is upheld in every possible way, and common sense should prevail.

Given its complex nature, it is absolutely correct that abortion decisions be delegated to local discretion. Our Founding Fathers wisely understood that social matters are a local concern.

As the New Testament transformed the Old Testament, Love and Charity overrode Jehovah’s stern mandates in the Old Testament.

Thank you, hard disagree. It’s not “complicated.” And leaving the decision to states is what caused these extremes to happen.

I’m sorry I do not agree. There are many forms of contraceptives. I do agree that there should be exceptions… But abortion should never be used as a contraceptive. We need to stop double standards. First if someone is killed during pregnancy everyone is for that Person to be charged with double homicide double standard. Second I think under rape and incest live threatening issues should not be considered under any abortion law but under the rape, incest and life threatening act. To run on its own merit not to be thrown in on an abortion act. I think once we clarify that those are not acts of abortion but survival. Then the states can figure out how they want to deal with the everyday abortions. I am strongly against waiting until the last term last minutes to have an abortion. Today you can know so early there is no reason unless medically needed the child will not be born normal would have medical problems beyond the scope of living one’s best life. Second of its a women choice to abort because she’s not ready then why do we hold men responsible no matter what. It takes 2 to make a baby I understand that women bodies do get effected by caring a baby I also understand we are the only ones capable. But we hold men accountable even if he were to want to opt for an abortion if the women chooses to not have one he is held to paying child support for life. I’m not sure of the right answers but I do believe it needs to be a stop the double standard. And I think that really there should be a federal law that is only for rape incest medical necessity that stands alone not thrown in with the everyday abortion. I feel if we focus on that being passed as an act of self survival act and let it stand alone with a clause that the rape of incest must be reported with charges so people don’t abuse.

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Ectopic pregnancies are non viable pregnancies- they will kill the mother and they cannot be born

Because you solicited my opinion directly, which I do not appreciate, btw, I will answer your request. NO! I believe that abortion policy should be decided at the state level, not by the federal government. The Dobbs decision made it clear that this issue is best handled by individual states and their constituents. Federal involvement risks overreach and undermines states’ rights to govern according to the values and needs of their residents.

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I dont understand how ppl refuse to protect the life of the most innocent life in human creation. The horrible things they do to these babies is worthy of capital punishment for the doctors murdering these helpless babies. The women that do this have no motherly instincts at all. Do they even know how these doctors/demons are ripping these poor babies apart? I like your well researched approch to this.

FACTCHECK ON @TStorey and your two lies:

First off, in response to your petty, fake remark in the first sentence… what kind of message from POLICIES FOR THE PEOPLE did you expect? A Happy Valentine’s Day wish?

Secondly, the fact that you went OUT OF YOUR WAY to publicly use lies to lash out at my attempt to address fetal genocide and deadly medical malpractice against pregnant women in our country, among other things, shows that you very much “appreciate” your chance to grace the public opinion section with your presence.

Thirdly, NO the Dobbs decision did NOT claim this was a “states-rights” only. NOWHERE in the Dobbs decision does it say that. I’m sick of people making up stuff about the Dobbs decision in order to justify your snobby complacency towards fetal genocide-until-birth, and your aggressive attempts against pro-lifers for trying to do something about it.

So here’s another screenshot, the one where the Dobbs concurring opinion specifically said that abortion was up to both states and “CONGRESS” to decide.

This link takes you to a paper published in the Harvard Journal of Law and Public Policy which shows the understanding of the word “person” at the time that the 14th amendment was written (to protect all “PERSONS” from undue deprivation of “life, liberty or property”) clearly includes unborn babies, and therefore NO, states do NOT have a right to grant unilateral access to elective abortion.

Protecting prenatal persons: does the Fourteenth Amendment prohibit abortion? - Free Online Library

Of course, a review of abortion atrocities makes it obvious that there is no “state right” to do this, for example this:
Aborted babies discovered in DC may indicate infanticide after attempted abortions

The one FACT that BOTH pro-life and pro-choice leaders agree on, is that the idea of federal abortion-related provisions are constitutional, as they are (1) aligned with the 5th, 10th and 14th amendments to protect every “PERSON” (which can be the woman or the unborn child) from being deprived of their “life, liberty or property” without “due process” and allow the federal government to regulate matters of “inter-state commerce” and (2) are consistent with related laws and regulations that have already been either proposed/voted on by Congress (such as Women’s Health Protection Act, Protect Babies Born Alive Act, Pain-Capable Unborn Child Protection Act, and the Comstock Act), affirmed as constitutional by Trump’s conservative-majority Supreme Court (such as ACA and EMTALA) and/or have already been in effect for years (such as the federal ban on Partial Birth abortions). And again the Dobbs decision, the concurring opinion specifically said that abortion related laws were up to “lawmakers” from BOTH “states” AND “Congress” to enact.

The advent of inter-state mail-order pills, shield laws and abortion sanctuary states means that if abortion wasn’t a matter of inter-state commerce before, eligible for federal regulation per the constitution, then it is now. Besides, we have already seen what happens to women and unborn children, when left unprotected by basic, federal safeguards. The lack of an adequate state response to those harms going on, constitutionally necessitates federal intervention.

Response to Ronald:

Thank you for your support of unborn babies.

I do implore you, however, to focus most of the blame on the abortion industry, Democrat propaganda and our coercively controlling society.

I know that your question was rhetorical when you asked “do [mothers] even know how these doctors/demons are ripping these poor babies apart?” But I would like to share some insights in response.

Firstly, 60% of abortions are now done via the abortion pill. And no, in that case, mothers are often not fully aware that this destroys a baby, because women are regularly told by the clinic and propaganda that it’s not a “baby.” The clinic doesn’t even use the word “embryo” or “fetus.” They say that it’s just “tissue.” They say it doesn’t really have a heart, just “cardiac activity.” They don’t say that abortion ends a life, they say it ends a “pregnancy.”

In fact, a couple years ago, one abortion doctor claimed that unborn babies up to nine week gestation were “not visible to the naked eye” and that they just looked like balls of fluff. The Guardian posted those photos, and to this day, pro-choice activists repeatedly repost those photos as a way to claim that pro-lifers are ignorant and crazy.

Regarding second trimester abortion, Planned Parenthood still calls the baby “tissue” or “pregnancy” and explains the process in a vague way. They neglect to tell the mother that the baby may very well be awake to feel the procedure, or about the chance of being born alive. I’ve read the horror stories from outspoken nurses, mothers and doctors on pro-life websites, but as you can imagine, most people are not going to broadcast their stories on such a sensitive issue that they’d rather keep as a secret.

In-Clinic Abortion Procedure | Abortion Methods

Abortion clinic workers are actually abortion sales-people, and they are known to be manipulative, coercive and dishonest because have sales quotas and they are under pressure from the top.

Why I Left the Abortion Industry (Part 1) - Abby Johnson, Sue Thayer, and Annette Lancaster

Also, the majority of abortive women experienced various degrees of coercion from their partner, family or the economy. Some of these men even follow/escort the woman into the clinic. These men believe that abortion is their decision, too. The pressure can be intense, and by the time the woman reaches the clinic, it might be too difficult for her to step back and run through that thick cloud of coercion surrounding her. When surveyed, the majority of women said that they would not have aborted if they had received whatever support that they were deprived of.

My first pregnancy was unwanted and my husband tried to bully me to abort our child. It was scary enough that I was still working and going to school full time, knew nothing about babies and had a high risk pregnancy (per my type one diabetes). But my husband’s constant bullying and threatening to leave my child fatherless, put me in the biggest, most overwhelming darkness, shock, fear, stress and pain of my life. I felt my life was ruined and that no matter what decision I made, I’d be filled with a bitter emptiness for the rest of my life. I can now see why so many women, who would have preferred to keep the baby, might turn to abortion under those circumstances. He completely weakened me; he took my soul; he took away all strength I had; I wasn’t brave enough to shout “no!”; I could only cry at his feet… I only barely squeaked by, holding on to a tiny speck of light because I knew that my child deserved life and eventually our child was born full term. It was only after the point of viability that my husband’s coercion attempts stopped, as he knew that by then it was no longer legal. Regardless, he loves his son now and spends lots of time with him.

We are constantly told that being a mom is the “toughest job in the world” and a baby is an interruption to our lives and careers, and abortion is merely our right, our one power, and that only college and a stable career will save us. Employers and college campuses will not care if you have to balance the work of a mom on top of your 40 hour work week or 12 unit coursework. If that unborn child has a severe abnormality, it can make that already unsteady balance, almost impossible.

Some women have abortions because they would rather have a family when they are more “ready” or because they already have enough children, and they think that another baby will only put a bigger strain on their existing parental relationships.

None of these are excuses but important to understand.

You mentioned that these “women that do this have no motherly instincts at all.” That is tragically untrue. Again, coercion, in its many forms, is a top driver for abortion, and the natural “motherly instincts” that all women have, is exactly what makes the abortion experience so traumatic and dehumanizing… Many post-abortive women experience deep regret and sorrow.

Here is one pro-life link called “I saw the baby” with short stories of abortive women.

I Saw My Baby | Live Action

Even in the infamous turn-away study, 94% of the mothers who were initially rejected for abortion, went on to have a normal bond with their children and even more of them were happy to get to keep their children, as opposed to the abortion they had originally sought.

It is for these reasons, that I advocate for more awareness as early as high school, about things like fetal/child development, what abortions are really like, parenting skills/experiences, and the harms of all forms of coercion, exploitation, abuse and absent fatherhood, etc. because we need to learn these things ahead of time, not when it’s too late/difficult to change your mind. In addition to having basic regulations regarding abortion and healthcare, we have to fight to fix our culture, to get at the root of the problem.

Thank you for this very sensible, well-thought-out proposal. I’ve often said that young women have abortions because they fear that they can’t care for their babies and that we as a nation do not offer such assistance for such care. Also, I have bemoaned the fact that there are so few records of the harms of abortions to the women receiving them, particularly from the “abortion pills” received via mail without any medical oversight. There is so much misinformation and propaganda for abortion, and your proposal aims to limit that. I am also concerned about medical providers being afraid to provide live-saving care for women who are having medical emergencies regarding their pregnancies. Your proposal also addresses that. Bravo! We have too long been a culture of abortion and fear.
I don’t know what is to be done about women who have many children outside of marriage, who are recipients of Medicaid and welfare, but that is a separate issue altogether. We must protect unborn babies as much as possible.

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The only thing I worry about with lessoning the cost of adoption is it will lesson the research done to be sure the child isn;t going to an abusive home. Just my opinion of course. You are right that it would make it more doable for families. I think it is not good that a child can’t be adopted because you don’t have a certain income as families never have the money to start a family and it all works out. Some families may end up on welfare but it is still cheaper than paying for foster care.
Cudos to anyone getting envolved in this thread. Open dialog is so needed in order to solve problems. And this is a problem that needs closure.
I myself believes abortion should only be performed to save the mothers life and I strongly disagree with whoever says there is never a reason to do that. However there comes a time when the mother has to make that desision on rape or insest. May God help them with that decission as He is the only one who should and will judge her for her decission. We are not God.
I certainly hope this thread getst to the people who can do something with it.
It just seems like our voices are never heard. Hopefully in this case I am wrong.
Good job Ashley!!! And thank you for all of your do dilagence as it was all I could do to get through the first video and when I read that it was taken right before the abortion I lost it. I don’t know how you do it but we needed you to for all of us who feel the same as you.
Good luck and “May The Force Be With You.”

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Any law that allows for the killing of an unborn baby, no matter what the reason or justification, is an unjust law and cannot be supported. You wrote way too much here. The only solution is no abortion whatsoever. Its simple:

      1. Recognize the unborn child as a person, a 
           human being, from the moment of conception.
      2. Under the constitution and the laws of this 
           country it is illegal to kill an innocent  human 
           being.
      3. Problem solved.

It’s truly that simple. No need for all that other grey area stuff in your proposal.

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RESPONSE TO CHRIS NOEL:

Trump has said he will NOT support any abortion ban. And most Republicans in Congress will not support a total ban either because they know that it’s political suicide and that the bigger threat is Dem’s capitalizing on the perception of GOP extremism to win an overwhelming Blue Wave, overturn any politically extreme abortion ban and then pass abortion-until-birth laws federally and in every state.

Therefore a total abortion ban is not on the table.

Trump’s current “states rights only” policy allows elective abortion until birth in all the Red and Purple states and to allow Blue states to provide illegal abortion pills to women from Red states. We should oppose that policy, oppose complacency and offer a better alternative. Otherwise, Abortion will win out and erase a path to a culture of life forever.

Abortion has already won out and barring a miraculous change of heart in many people it will continue to win out. There can be no compromise with evil. The answer is simply no abortions and no exemptions whatsoever, EVER. The fact of the matter is that Abortion is not going away and although we need to continue that fight there is a greater evil and menace on our doorstep - EUTHANASIA! Euthanasia is the rotten fruit of the tree of abortion.

“For if in the green wood they do these things, what shall be done in the dry?” Luke 23:31

My proposal above not only avoids a ban on abortion but it also prevents euthanasia.

My proposal simply focuses on already existing laws and truths. The heart of the problem of abortion is the failure to recognize the unborn child as a person (hardness of heart). Clear that up and abortion by default (along with euthanasia) becomes illegal. Problem solved. Simple. No national abortion ban required.

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  • I do not propose a compromise. I propose that we save as many lives as we CAN.

  • Again we have absolutely ZERO ability to completely ban abortions, so that is not an “answer.”

To believe we have ZERO ability to ban abortion is to cede ground to the enemy, which is the attitude that got us here in the first place.

Again, my proposal is simple and does not require an abortion ban.

      1. Recognize the unborn as a person at the 
           moment of conception.
       2. Abortion is by default illegal because of 1. 
            above.

No need for anything further.

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