Bring back white collar jobs outsourced overseas or replaced with H1B Visa workers

NOTE: Going forward the initial policy draft presented will be further defined using a collaborative approach with @GoUSA @waynetom @Momzilla. If anyone is interested in working with us, please let me know.

PLEASE consider giving the policy your vote.

We are enhancing the policy to quantify how prevalent this issue truly is and providing recommendations for holding companies accountable. Those not close to the H1B Visa hiring practices would be shocked how many Americans get shut out from being hired due to the hiring of H1B Visa workers instead. Quantifying the impact will bring it to light.

INITIAL POLICY DRAFT

The jobs that have moved offshore are gone forever and will never to be back. At least when manufacturing jobs go overseas, there is a focus to bring them back.

The jobs held by H1B Visa workers are gone too and will never be available to Americans again. Maybe there is hope and a policy can be put in place to help save what IT and other specialty jobs are left for Americans.

Outsourcing of American white collar jobs to non American workers happens one of two ways.

Offshore Outsourcing

Various white collar jobs have been shipped offshore allowing corporations to replace jobs held by Americans. Jobs in call centers, finance, human resource, and IT are outsourced off shore in places like India and Philippines.

Offshore jobs pay a ridiculous low rate of under $50 a month to replace the work of an American. The replacement of the American worker with an offshore worker is not necessarily at the same level of productivity or work performance. In many cases, it takes more offshore resources to meet the level of productivity of an American. Offshore resources in call centers use a script and lack any understanding of the American culture (i.e. criticality of an issue as it relates to every day life in the USA). In other offshore roles, in most cases the level of knowledge is not as profound as it is for an American.

Onshore Outsourcing- Specialty Skilled H1B Visa

The jobs classified as jobs with specialty skills provides a way to allow corporations to hire H1B Visa workers here in the USA. H1B Visa program provides a way to fill jobs where there supposedly aren’t enough Americans with those specialty skills.

Typically H1B Visa workers are willing to work for a salary far below what is paid to an American with that same specialty skill. Corporations have found a way to hire H1B Visa workers instead of more qualified Americans.

What starts off as hiring one or two H1B Visa workers evolves into an entire team of H1B Visa workers. It continues to evolve into leadership in IT Departments and Engineering Departments being dominated by foreign workers here on H1B visas.

Culture Shift in Department away from USA

The overall culture of departments dominated by H1B Visa workers does not resemble anything in American culture. Depending on where the H1B Visa workers are from, the cast system and hierarchy protocol is followed. The overall interaction of the team is one where individual contributors are talked to condescending. The American culture is to ignore titles and do what it takes to get the job done through teamwork and collaboration.

Competing with H1B Visa Workers

Once a H1B foreign worker is in a hiring manager position, they hire only those with similar culture backgrounds here on H1B visas instead of Americans. The American gets rejected even if they are more qualified. There is no way to prove the American is more qualified. For any American on a team of H1B Visa workers and they are the minority, the American can experience bullying and no consideration given to their ideas or what they can contribute. The language spoken among the team in common work areas is not English so the American is shut out when relevant work-related conversations take place. Also, any American in an individual contributor role where they are the minority will have difficulty advancing especially when the promoting manager is a H1B Visa worker. Being a woman has even more challenges in this environment.

Advancement of H1B Visa Workers

For H1B visa workers to advance in a company, a job opening is created for a role to promote the H1B visa worker. The job is posted for internal and external applicants.The corporation already knows the job is designated for the specific H1B Visa worker, but they must go through the formal process of showing they tried to hire an American. Once they get the right number of internal and external applicants interviewed that are American, the company can move forward with the hiring of the H1B Visa worker in the new role. No matter how qualified an American may be, the company rejects all other applicants as not qualified thus hiring the H1B Visa worker for the job posted.

Proposed Policy

There is no incentive for corporations hire Americans.

  • Cost of H1B Visa paid by companies needs to be significant. It needs to be at least 3 years of the American salary for that specialty skill.

  • Penalty fine paid by companies for each job they fail to hire a qualified American.

  • Any job sent overseas results in a penalty being paid by companies equal to three years of the salary of the American job being outsourced.

  • Americans who lose their job due to it being moved overseas are compensated by the company with three years full salary including medical benefits and incentives.

  • An American who loses a job outsourced to overseas or outsourced in the USA qualifies for paid education to enhance skills.

More details need to be put into this plan. Too much of this is subjective and a way for a company to work around the policy to not pay penalties and incentives

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You’ve got my vote!

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Share a link to your policy in your reply to me.

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Thank you for creating the policy. This is amazing, and I strongly support the proposed policy.

I was wondering whether we can implement a country cap on H-1B visas to promote a more diverse and balanced global workforce in the U.S. economy (possibly maintaining 50% of people from OECD countries).

The issue we currently have:
Jury Finds Discrimination in H-1B Visa Tech Worker Case

By limiting the number of visas issued to individuals from any single country, we can prevent overreliance on a few nations and ensure that talented professionals from a broader range of countries have equal opportunities to contribute to our industries.

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Thank you for your input! I love the idea of collaborating. Your input is excellent!

I’ll edit this reply later today after I get a chance to review your comments and see how they can be incorporated with a reference who contributed the idea. I’m hoping the others I pinged via DM yesterday evening will want to join in.

To best teams are ones that are diverse. That is what makes the USA so beautiful, being the blend of many different cultural backgrounds. Diversity allows for no clicks, no bullying , and an overall very professional work environment. Great comradery.

Once we get something more solid, we need to socialize on this forum to get votes. Without votes, the policy won’t be considered. I’m even considering getting my American IT friends to join the forum so I can get their votes. They all have the same experience as I have had with H1B Visa workers.

If you get a chance, check out the book The Culture Map by Erin Meyer. She has a website www.erinmeyer.com .

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Yeah this is why our economy is in the gutter. Protectionist garbage has no place in a free market.

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Excellent break down of the problem. Another aspect that I have heard from American job-seekers is that companies post the position opening for applications merely to fulfill the requirement that they attempted to hire locally. In reality, they never intended to hire an American and are putting desperate job seekers through the ringer. The job posting was an illusion just to check their box so they could go through their desired (cheaper) H1B hires. As you mentioned, there is much nepotism at play, and what starts as 1 person in a team will soon lead to the entire team and any influential or subordinate members being replaced by others of the same culture, regardless of merit. This is a grave issue for the American white-collar work force. Thank you for bringing attention to it!

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Thank you for your comments.

As you said and I referenced in the policy, companies are required to post the job and interview American candidates.

They just go through the motions to check a box, as you said in your post, never intending to hire the American. The American gets rejected for being unqualified (but they really weren’t) so the H1B Visa worker gets the job. I experienced this first hand and all that I discuss in the policy is what I personally experienced.

Again, thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts.

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I work in Tech our managers have found qualified Americans to hire as we were understaffed, my manager found great individuals in America and went to upper management to put together offers, my manager was told to find workers in either the Philippines or India for the positions. This is happening consistently in IT. Its horrible many young Americans coming out with expensive degrees looking for jobs in America cannot find jobs because all the tech jobs are being outsourced overseas

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Say this loud so the people in the back can hear it! I work for a third party medical billing company and they have bought a company in India and we are currently training them to replace our job positions. Cheaper labor but they get what they pay for. It seems like everyone is using India which is taking jobs from Americans and is frustrating to have to communicate with especially for folks who live in rural areas and our senior citizen’s. These people have access to Americans phi, which is so scary especially with all the cyber attacks and scams going on, think about it they make hardly nothing why wouldn’t they sale people’s information and make some big bucks. The social security numbers, address, phone numbers. Come on America it’s a huge issue happening with our workforce and national security
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I’d like to see something simple and easier to enforce such as 100% salary tariff charges for each position given to H1B. Perhaps it could be capped at some high point or an even higher percentage than 100% for lower wages

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UnitedHealth group is doing this non stop. All our jobs are going to India, Philippines, etc. Do we really want all our personal data, names, address, social security numbers and ALL medical information being sent offshore? I’ve been on 2 different teams in UnitedHealth and both teams work have been completely sent offshore. Literally thousands of jobs are being eliminated for U.S. workers for just this company alone. And it’s all medical/personal information. The goal for United is to have 70% of our work done offshore.

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That is what happened to our entire IT department in corporate finance in a major telecom company. They laid off wave after wave, replacing them with offshore Indian programmers. The going rate was 3.5 Indian programmers gained for every 1 American programmer laid off, due to the exchange rate difference. It had nothing to do with higher quality…actually the quality overall went down in our department and I personally witnessed it because I had to pick up the slack for lots of screw-ups, partially finished work, code failures, user complaints unresolved, systems administration failures, including missing scheduled OS upgrades and patching, etc. I had 25 years experience and was very aware of the quality drop since I was one of the very last American programmers on my team to go – I was tasked with teaching the new Indian programmers all of the ins and outs of the software and systems. About a year after all of this, this major telecom company outsourced all of its IT and closed internal shops because of the rampant failures for releases and hardware/software administration. I was being called constantly late and night and early morning hours from half a world away (having already put in my day’s work) telling the Indian programmers how to handle issues that pop up…I was like a switchboard operator answering calls from one person after another - I had to start pretending stupid so that I could start getting decent sleep at night. It was like they relied on me to walk them through everything that occurred with the systems. It was horrible. There is an old saying that rings quite true: “You get what you pay for.” I would strongly suggest that our IT jobs be brought back onshore ASAP if you ever think about making America Great Again in the technology sector. Without high quality IT, nothing else is going to work well – tech. is now fully integrated into the fabric of America. It needs the best people behind the best tech. and we have them already onshore. I can attest to that – I was one of them; and I watched them get axed, one-by-one (top notch programmers) for cheaper outsourced labor. The best IT people I saw in my 25 years were people from the United States - hands down (and I dealt with coders from all over the world). U.S. code was blocked and readable, tight, reusable, and well-documented, unlike a lot of foreign-generated code. Time to put American IT know-how and talent back to work. :nerd_face:

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I have worked in or worked for Silicon Valley companies for most of my career. One observation is that with H1B the workers are stuck. They cannot leave except back to the country of origin. They have to stay with the company with low wages until they get a green card or citizenship. This significantly depresses the wages at the company and similar companies. If they obtain a green card and leave the company they are generally unemployable as the hiring company knows they have the extra flexibility in their employment.
Most recently before retirement I worked for a semiconductor company and the group I was in had 50 employees and all except 2 were born out of the USA and I think all of the others were here on H1B visas. We should attempt to reshore the lost jobs sent overseas and limit the number of H1B visas so that qualified citizens have a fair opportunity to compete.
I think much of the issue with ‘qualified’ candidates is the lacking US education system. We need to provide a much better education system where meritocracy is rewarded. No child left behind mean that no child gets ahead with their abilities.
The university level education system is also to blame as the curriculum is not oriented for success. With the government guaranteeing student loans they have no incentive for keeping costs low and quality high. The universities have an unacceptable debt load by building facilities to attract students with little academic value. The students and parents must be made aware of these issues and use more discernment in choosing a good school that will provide the basis of a good career. This requires critical thinking that the public schools are not providing.
What is needed in the education system is more fair competition. There are online options that provide good value to cost and could be part of the solution.

I have a PhD in electrical engineering, started a couple companies and a few inventions that provide value in the market place. For this I was rewarded with continued employment. I pity the ones that were not so fortunate.

I’m in tech/academia, and I would say the problem has nothing to do with the US education system. I have seen OPT (visa) students picked over American students after graduating from the same programs/universities.

By meritocracy or competition, companies mean low-wage competition, such as asking employees to work 80 hours/day or doing something that US employees know is against labor laws.