Rank Choice Voting for Congressional Elections

Put material support behind https://www.congress.gov/congressional-record/congressional-record-index/118th-congress/2nd-session/ranked-choice-voting-act/1920974 for the establishment of Rank Choice Voting (RCV).

Getting this done would provide for:

  1. Instant run off process
  2. Winners are “majority” winners and not “plurality”
  3. Folks don’t have to feel like they’re “throwing their vote away” when voting their conscience and selection a candidate who isn’t a Top 2 choice on the ballot.

The result of pushing this model through, should drive a top down shift in our electoral process that leverages the model for Presidential on down to local leaders. Creating consensus among the “second choices” should pull the country back from the extreme division and empower folks to feel more like they are voting FOR someone or something, rather than the current “lesser of two evils” mindset many folks in the country feel today.

RCV is currently proving itself at State level use cases with Maine and Alaska. It is also in use for New York City, proving that it can be effectively done in high population electorates and actually smooth out the process, while inviting more options/voices to the ballot with a sense of a “real chance” to have an impact.

More of the NYC impacts can be read here: What we learned from New York City’s second ranked choice voting election - FairVote

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rank choice voting is extremely bad and should be outlawed. are you actually this ill informed or are you a communist activist.

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I can set aside the accusation of being a “communist activist”. I would like to better understand why you feel RCV is “bad” and hear a bit of your perspective/experience. I’m very much for a civil discussion. I am not that receptive to insult though.

Remember, the platform does ask that we all be kind to fellow community members.

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No not a good idea at all. If you think they can cheat now then watch out if you bring RCV in.

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Ranked choice voting is the best way to keep electing the least popular politicians in a state.

Exhibit A: Lisa Murkowski in Alaska, disliked by both parties but only wins to prevent satisfaction for the other party

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I can appreciate the concern to voter fraud. Fraud is a major concern today and typically linked to the voter rolls and presence of duplicate entries, the deceased, ineligible folks etc. Though I think your concern raises the importance of looking at places where RCV is in use and comparing fraud in those states/cities where RCV is in use against similar control groups. We should NOT just implement blindly. The data and the oversight (poll watchers) remain vital to protecting the process and inspiring confidence.

Fair?

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RCV is a failure in Maine. RCV steals the vote and is counter productive

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She may be disliked by party officials, but she did capture majority support in the second round when dropping out the lowest vote getter. I am curious if party establishment opinion matters, when a majority of the electorate has a candidate they can agree on.

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Ranked Choice Voting (RCV) is often promoted as a solution to improve the electoral process, but there are several reasons why it may not deliver on its promises and could even introduce new issues.

1. RCV is Complex and Confusing for Voters: While proponents argue that RCV helps eliminate the “lesser of two evils” mindset, it’s far from straightforward. Voters are required to rank candidates in order of preference rather than selecting just one, which can be confusing—particularly for older voters or those less engaged in politics. A 2021 study in Maine found that nearly 1 in 10 voters submitted incomplete or incorrectly marked ballots, which effectively disqualified their votes. In this scenario, RCV doesn’t enhance democracy; it disenfranchises voters.

2. RCV Doesn’t Necessarily Produce Majority Winners: While RCV is designed to produce a majority winner, it doesn’t always do so. As voters’ lower choices are redistributed, it’s common for ballots to become “exhausted,” meaning they no longer count because the voter did not rank all candidates. In some elections, the winner is selected with a “majority” of the remaining active ballots, not the majority of all voters who participated in the election. This undermines the concept of a true majority winner and can distort the final outcome.

3. Increased Costs and Administrative Burdens: Implementing RCV can be costly and logistically complex, especially in areas with older voting infrastructure. New equipment, staff training, and voter education campaigns are required to manage the process effectively. In places like New York City, RCV led to confusion during its rollout, adding to delays in vote counting and increasing administrative costs. For states already facing budgetary challenges, adding the complexities of RCV could divert resources from other essential services.

4. Encourages Strategic Voting and Candidate Manipulation: Advocates claim that RCV reduces negative campaigning and encourages candidates to appeal to broader audiences. However, in practice, RCV can actually incentivize strategic behavior, where candidates coordinate to become the “second choice” rather than focusing on winning outright. This could lead to an increase in “backroom deals” and alliances, where political insiders determine outcomes rather than the electorate.

5. Potential for Increased Polarization and Fragmentation: While some argue that RCV can reduce polarization by favoring consensus candidates, the reality can be the opposite. With the opportunity to rank multiple candidates, fringe or single-issue candidates can gain more visibility, leading to a fragmented political landscape. Instead of creating more unity, it can deepen divides and encourage parties to splinter, making governance even more challenging.

6. Proven Success is Limited: Proponents often point to Maine and Alaska as success stories, but the results are mixed. In Maine’s 2018 congressional race, the candidate who won with RCV actually received fewer first-choice votes than his opponent. This led to accusations that RCV allowed a less popular candidate to win, which fuels public distrust. Similarly, Alaska’s implementation has seen pushback from voters and confusion, undermining its legitimacy.

Ultimately, while RCV is well-intentioned, it may not achieve its goals and could introduce new problems. Simplifying voting systems, rather than adding layers of complexity, may be a more effective way to engage voters and produce clear, fair outcomes.

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Alaska got rid of primaries in favor of a RCV and made it a free for all. She would have lost in a primary for 2022, but RCV was enacted by the Alaska GOP in the legislature to save her from a challenge. She got a fake majority because she was in a Republican vs Republican election in 2022. She has low approval ratings but survives only to piss off the other party. That’s not how it should work and that’s your system you choose to defend

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I think it would be helpful, for me at least, to see any measure of local polling or news paper support for what you’re calling out. If it is failing, I’d like to see the source material so that I can understand, better, where your perspective is coming from.

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RCV has been a failure everywhere its beed tried. Totally scammed Alaska last time. Hard no especially with the rampant voter fruad.

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Looking at https://fairvote.org/analysis-from-alaskas-rcv-elections-in-november-2022/ I am not fully sold on the idea of a “fake majority”. Murkowski had a VERY narrow lead after Round 1 and would have taken a plurality win in the traditional system. The consideration of a “second choices” did put her over, but it at the very least provided and opportunity Tshibaka to come from behind if she was indeed an option folks would be comfortable with.

I could be wrong, but the result data seems to support.

As I already explained, Murkowski survived as a means to piss off the other party. She received Democrat votes because they wanted her to succeed to give them more votes they agree with than Tshibaka even though they dislike her. She has little approval in the state as a whole. Second round choice gave her Democrat and Republican votes. They chose to vote for her to disapprove the other party. Tshibaka would actually be approved by voters if the voting system wasn’t rigged against her.

You are wanting to push reforms on a working system because you’re dissatisfied with your favorite picks being on the losing side.

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I understand that you put a perspective forward, but its difficult for me to align based on solely a perspective without any source material to consider that supports what you’re putting forward. I actually think the ability to pull in folks from the “other side” is a good think and reduces polarization. Regardless of motivation, is it really an accurate position to say RCV is a detriment if the majority of voters can come to a consensus on a winner.

I can see the parties shifting their candidate selection/sponsorship to look for folks to put into the race that are stronger in creating consensus and pulling folks to their platform and path forward. It also seems that it puts greater focus on candidates that can create compromise and lower the success rate for folks that operate in the extremes for either party.

You don’t get it. She didn’t get votes from the “other side” because they like her. She got those votes because she’s “not that bad” compared to the other one. She has one of the lowest Senator approval ratings. Does that really make sense for her to get elected over another member of her party? She has high disapproval within her party. Her state is much stronger for the Republican Party. Alaska would actually approve their Senator if they didn’t have her.

You aren’t supporting “the best choice to represent all.” You are supporting a system that elects the worst choice to represent none.

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I understand the argument you’re putting forward, but I’m not seeing more than hearsay & opinion in the argument that would move me towards your position. I understand that you find Murkowski to be a weak representative for the Republican party, but the voters for that community spoke. Regardless of whether the voters like her or feel she’s less detrimental than her competition; voters make choices they can live with. This is where I put the onus on the candidates to make their case more effectively to earn those second choice considerations, if they cannot win first choice. Murkowski obviously made that case well enough to lead both the first and second rounds. You might not like the result, but RCV did give the other candidates a chance they otherwise would not have had. It forced Murkowski to attain majority support and not simply a plurality win (which she would’ve had after Round 1).

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You’re focused on the election results and you’re ignoring the actual approval rating she has in Alaska. She is disliked by both parties and won. Something is wrong with the system if you think that is the right way to go.

This is not about my opinion of Murkowski. This is about THEIR opinion of Murkowski. How obtuse are you?

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I hear you on the approval rating, I just think the first round voting shows that it wasn’t an impactful enough factor to swing the election. It may have been what created a “close” race in Round 1, but Murkowski still won that despite her approval ratings. The “old system” would have called it there (43.4% to 42.6%).

Appreciate the dialog and I think you’ve expressed your views in a constructive way. Stepping away for a bit. :slight_smile:

She would have lost in the old system because she wouldn’t have won the Republican primary in the first place. That’s why they enacted the system in the first place. They rigged it for her. The fact she won doesn’t mean it helped anybody.

At least in Maine, they still have party primaries with their ranked choice. There was no reason to get rid of that in Alaska unless they aimed to have a manipulated system, which they did

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