Nurse Practioner=DEI=“Didn’t earn it”

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A NP practices medicine but has less than 5% of the training of a MD/DO physician and the quality of that training is inferior with much of it not clinical.

They chose to be an NP because they didn’t want to do extra schooling or could not get into medical school. RNs pursue this route for $$$$$$$ creating cash practices, “med spas,” etc with little training and don’t actually expand access to care.

In malpractice suites, many states do not hold them to the same standard of care as a physician, because they practice “advanced practice nursing” and not medicine….all the while practicing medicine.

Legislatures should outright ban NPs (they can be an RN which there are now a shortage of because the surplus of NPs) or restrict their billing to no higher than 99213 or the equivalent to REDUCE healthcare costs and FORCE safe scope of practice.

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Would you apply this same restriction to Physician Assistants? PA training is also much less than physicians, and they frequently do not have the clinical training, background and experience that Registered Nurses have prior to obtaining their advanced degree. Also, many RNs complete Physican Assistant training rather than Nurse Practitioner training.

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Yes! although I’ll say on average they’re better than NPs. NPs have totally exploited this educational route. PAs actually have standardized formal schooling and it’s hard to get in. Meanwhile NPs are the definition of DEI.

NPs many of the schools have near 100% acceptance rates, 100% online, 500 hour of training. Most of that training is shadowing non-clinical staff or shadowing other trainees. You have NP students with little to no RN experience pursing it for money and so they don’t have to go to medschool then you have these diploma mills enabling this unchecked because they can make lots of $$$ off of this.

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And if you want to prevent people for going to NP school and get 1/20th the training of a physician but able to obtain 85% of the reimbursement, FORCE them to practice (safer) medicine by not allowing reimbursement higher than 99213 which is low complexity patients. Right now there is a massive arbitrage loop hole which they are exploiting.

Tax payers will save BILLIONs if they’re not allowed to bill moderate-high complexity while also protecting patients from seeing qualified providers who are exploiting loop holes.

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NP write prescriptions as well…

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And they have less training than a person working at a hair salon.

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Desperate to get my wife into a legitimate RN educational program.

Can’t find a single one which will allow her to go through the program without taking vaccines. Either they stop us at the school side or inform us she will not be able to go through clinicals if she’s not going to take all their updated vaccines.

Can anyone take a wild guess why there is a shortage of nurses?

If anyone knows of an online educator or anywhere physically in the state of Colorado where my wife can go through school to get a RN degree, without taking vaccines, please, please, please respond to this post. I was in contact with one of the activist groups, I think it was stand for health freedom. They played an important role in the groundbreaking new Idaho rule about illegal to discriminate based on personal medical choices. They were unable to help and told me about the way some of the national and federal programs control nurse licensing proceedure and that’s why educators can’t deviate from the mandatory requirements even if they wanted to.

It does not take a rocket scientist to see what there is a shortage of these professional positions. One has to capitulate to all these unnecessary edicts and pretend that vaccines are entirely safe and effective with no risk of harm, and be willing to push these onto patients as well as yourself, to even gain access to the programs. We could have been really successful, if only they’d allow us the access to higher education. But we’re not taking vaccines. Discrimination against peoples private medical choices remains a real problem in health care based education.

This proposal is a little off because it overlooks the definition of ‘medicine’, and seeks to define that in one limited manner. I just practiced medicine here at home when I ate lunch. Because food is medicine. I just practiced a form of medicine last night when I took a shower, because hygeine is a form of care. I just practiced medical substance delivery to myself and my family when I gave us all vitamins, because preventative supplements is a wiser choice than pharmaceuticals. In another thread we were talking about getting a hold of the insurance companies and demanding they stop dictating care, to allow patents to have access to nutritionists, acupuncture, chiropractor, and holistic medicinal care providers as standard coverage.

I think the OP may be not understanding how government regulation actually functions and the end result. Whenever there is another piece of regulation, some new red tape, this ends up costing consumers more not less for the service. Then inevitably the programs become co opted by the very same companies they sought to regulate, and this allows corporations to monopolize and dominate entire industry sectors. Because. Regulation.

The appropriate redress is in fact; malpractice suits. That and online reviews.

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I own an MSO and employ both Physician Assistants and Nurse Practitioners and I would have to disagree with you. They are both considered mid-level providers and their experience can vary dependent upon where they completed their schooling and clinicals, how much and what type of live hands work experience they completed.
In direct disagreement with your statement. I have to say that many Nurse Pratitioners were Registered Nurses first and worked in hospitals along side doctor’s and learned and saw a great deal. This is where actual clinical experience makes a difference. In many cases, Nurse Practitioners can be more experienced than Physician Assistants and vise versa.
To take it a step further in defense of Nurse Practitioners they can also run their own practice in some states where a Physician Assistant cannot.
Many Physician Assistants go directly into being a PA never before working in medical until their clinicals and practicums. PA’s can also get their degrees online.
To make it fair, I would say that both PA’s and Nurse Practitioners should be required to have a prerequisite of clinical or hospital work experience as an RN of at least 5 years before pursuing PA or NP school.
If we want to retain RNs in the hospitals and medical facilities then improve their work experience and pay. They have one of the hardest jobs and are very much unappreciated.
Experience does matter but you cannot dismiss and entire NP profession for some so, I disagree with this statement overall.

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No physician is training RNs on how to practice medicine, they have plenty of work to do already. RNs have distinctly different responsibilities from physicians. By your logic, why can’t med techs and medical assistants then DEI their way into practicing medicine, should they be able to? Just as a stewardess who’s flown for 20 years isn’t qualified to be a pilot. Many NPs these days did little to no RN work before becoming an NP while others include irrelevant work experience, e.g.: a endo nurse for 10 years going to be a PMHNP

Just because non-medically trained legislators who were lobbied to allow NPs to run a clinic doesn’t mean anything. There are states that require a physician to co-own said facilities so this is meaningless.

And therein you admit the true reason why RNs go to be NPs (poor pay) and now there is a deficit of RNs….these RNs are motivated solely by $$$$$$$. I noticed you didn’t contend with the needing 500 hours to practice medicine and shoddy training. Shadowing is not training. Shadowing other trainees is not training. Shadowing a social worker is not training.

You also didn’t contend with their hard inappropriate use, they should not see moderate or high complexity patients. They should only be able to bill low complexity. This alone would SAVE HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS $$$ IN TAX PAYER MONEY OVER JUST A FEW YEARS (ofc at the cost of your business’s profits that doesn’t give af about patients getting well)

Meanwhile a medical resident (MD/DO) needs 16,000 hours of training. Every patient they see, all of the orders they put in, all the notes they write, EVERYTHING is supervised directly by multiple physicians over many years.

Hospitals, private equity, venture capital, etc love NPs because of the lack of supervision and the $ arbitrage at the cost of patients health. No one hires NPs other than to make $$$$ quickly.

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You make some great points, but I can’t help to feel that you are a victim of neglect or malpractice yourself with as hard as you are going after NP’s.
If that is the case, I hope you are truly okay.

It seems to me as though you would like to wipe NPs off the map entirely. PAs can be hired for the same amount as NPs. To your point though, it does matter where they go to school. It does matter whether they have had substantial experience. But that goes for both NP’s and PA’s.

DEI did not help anything! I agree with you there. But for you to pick a profession and go after just one does not make sense to me unless you were harmed by an NP. There were DEI pilots and they are in charge of your life too. So you obviously are on a mission here. Let me step aside and let you through.

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There are varying degrees of competency in NP Practice, excellent to not good. To resolve the issue, I believe the competency needs regulation and I’m against a lot of regulation. Believe this is of prime attention. I’ve worked in many states and see the difference. I miss having an internist oversee, really oversee care as a cancer survivor. Mid levels need oversight if they are to be responsible for a patient up front. Then, as trust and knowledge in crease the supervisor doctor can increase tasks. I’m an RN in quality. Competency is definitely an issue for excellence.

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I disagree with this. I’ve had several excellent NP’s who were far superior to MD’s I had been to.

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Do you practice medicine to know the difference? Just because they hooked you up with benzodiazepines and adderall doesn’t mean they’re practicing good medicine.

You also can’t dispute the shoddy training and practicing way outside their scope. The government can save billions by limiting their billing. As is they get reimbursed 85% of that of a physician with 5% of the training.

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“Supervision” doesn’t exist. Medical residents (MD/DO) require millions of tax payer dollars in subsidies a year to ensure they’re properly supervised. This is after 4 years of training already.

How can a midlevel be “supervised” while simultaneously creating massive profits when the “supervisor” is seeing 4 patients an hour of their own, writing orders, completing notes, returning messages, etc? THERE IS NO REAL SUPERVISION, IT WOULDNT BE PROFITABLE

The supervision satisfies appearances only. Many states the supervisor does NOT have to be in the same specialty and in most cases are not on site, it’s a transactional relationship to satisfy requirements only.

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I’m really sorry you harbor so much animosity and resentment towards NP’s that you’re not able to keep an open mind. And no, they did not hook me up with those medicines and how condescending of you to assume you know what my NP prescribed. BTW, she turned my life around with holistic approaches.

So, instead of venting your anger on me, perhaps you should take a look inward and do some work there.

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That’s my point inconsistency

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That’s my point. Regulate for competency

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You can prevent mismanagement by limiting their billing to low complexity only saving billions of tax money and people’s lives, that will lead to self regulation.

NPs don’t allow more robust education and attempt to silence those who express concerns. Reforming the education unfortunately would admit there is a major problem:

There’s also RNs who speak about how poor NP education is and being an RN doesn’t prepare you to practice medicine:

However all of this is common sense and you don’t need an RN or an NP to tell you the training is poor. 500 hours of shadowing vs 16,000 hours of real supervised training.

To be clear, RNs are worth their weight in gold. NPs are DEI by definition and cost the tax payers $$$$ and health.

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NP’s have a greater education than PA’s. I would take most NP’s over a PA any day. There are good NP’s and bad ones, just like PHysicians. They did not choose to be a NP to avoid going to Medical school. Their training is more thorough that a PAand is rigorous in its requirements
Jane Doe you need to get your facts straight.

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PAs understand they are UNDER an MD or DO. They have the humility to know they didn’t train for MD/DO level knowledge. NPs are flat out dangerous and cocky with LESS knowledge than PAs. Bottom line is, states need to stop them from independent practice and what they should be doing is creating an internal process for the THOUSANDS of unmatched medical students. Rural communities need physicians and NPs cannot fill that void but actually exacerbate the health crisis in rural communities. They shouldn’t be allowed to practice independently and instead there should be a path for unmatched medical students, who out of school know more than any NP even with 10 years experience.
The Match system needs to be dismantled.

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