20% Profit Sharing (in lieu of further min wage hikes)

Exactly as it sounds: any profits that a company makes (or, at the very least, publicly traded ones), it must give 20% of those profits directly to those who worked for it. It is, in essence, a mandatory bonus for a job well done.

This, I think, is the key policy that made the Shah’s Iran the only autocracy (that I’ve ever heard of) to make its people wealthier across all walks of life, and to do so consistently for over 20 years, during which the U.S. faced at least one major economic downturn in the 1970s.

Most obviously, profit sharing would help fix the increasing wealth disparity between the corporate business class and the working class, but without significantly increasing the cost of doing business and without the compounding inflationary effects that minimum wage hikes have along the supply chain. As it is a percentage rather than a fixed amount, not only would it keep pace with productivity, but employees and politicians would not need to constantly fight for the increase.
As well, since it is tied to profit rather than gross, there’s little a conniving business can do to circumvent it. Reducing hours or laying people off only leaves the same share to be distributed among those who remain. Raising prices on customers simply creates more profit to be shared. Finally, if a CEO or other high-level executive could receive a pay raise on a whim, why wouldn’t they already be paid that higher amount? This, I think, is why limiting it to public-traded companies would work best: the shareholders would stop upper management from handing out all profits to themselves before reporting that that the company is constantly breaking even.

Because overhead would not increase, this would also not affect the cost of starting a business. As most small businesses remain unprofitable for several years after starting, the entrepreneur would not need to bother with the addition man-hours needed to assign profit-shares alongside paychecks. Moreover, the extra money would allow workers to more easily start businesses of their own. The trade-off to the worker would be simple: does one work for a bigger business for a more stable income but a smaller cut of the profit share, or join a smaller company and potentially reap a greater amount of share from having far fewer people to divide it amongst?

However, the biggest benefit would, somewhat ironically, be to the businesses themselves. Because workers would now have their fortunes tied into the performance of the company, every single one of them would be incentivized to work better and less wastefully. Speaking from experience in the lower ends of big corporate business, most workers aim for mere adequacy rather than excellence, as excellence is seldom rewarded with anything besides of more hours (often under stressful or outright miserable conditions) for the same pay. I myself would often drag my heels during closing hours in order to take home more money, as I was paid by the hour and upper management’s nitpicky complaints about labor allocation were, quite literally, not my problem.
The thing which gives capitalism the edge over all other economic models, from socialism to serfdom, is (in theory) rewarding excellence. Profit sharing would do this for everyone on all levels. Every janitor would be less wasteful with their cleaning fluids. Every office worker would complete their work faster to guarantee a project remain on schedule. Every shelf-stocker would be more careful not to drop anything breakable. Even something as simple as saving and re-using the same styrofoam cup at the water cooler would lower the company’s expenditures and thus allow everyone to profit from their diligence. All of those tiny little cost-saving moments add up to more money than most people consider, simply because they have no reason to consider it.

Some anticipated questions:
“If the company loses money during a period, should the workers lose pay?”
Well, that depends. Was it the worker’s decisions that caused the loss of revenue? If not, why should they be penalized for something they didn’t do?

“Why should I give any profit to my workers when I’m the one taking all the risk?”
Because now the workers share in your risk and stand to lose as well. Thus, as I said, they’ll work better. All stick and no carrot makes for a lousy workhorse.

“Should this profit share be subject to Medicare or Social Security tax deduction, and have withholding for state, federal, or local income tax?”
No. Firstly, this program would lessen the need for welfare by both increasing overall wealth and generally encouraging people to be employed. Secondly, lacking automatic tax deduction would make workers more aware of the tax codes their subject to and, since they’d likely need to reserve some to pay income tax, make them thriftier with their spending habits.

In conclusion, while profit sharing may sound socialist in name, it is actually hyper-capitalistic. It turns everyone into a de facto co-owner of the company they work for (without having to navigate the unknowable whims of hedge funds and Wall Street the way share distribution programs do), it enables workers to more quickly cover payments housing or car loans, and it makes everyone aware of their actions and habits at work, to find new ways to both work better and reduce costs.
Personally, for how it should be implemented, I’d recommend a “man-days” system, where the overall share is divided by the number of total man-days worked, then a worker gets an allocation directly proportional to the number of calendar days they clocked in. This would encourage people to pick up extra shifts and not miss days, and it would ensure that big business could not skirt the rule by simply hiring a load of “independent contractors” (e.g. the professional wrestling model of pseudo-employment).

With all that said, it should be left to the states to determine how and when this 20% profit share is distributed. A one-size-fits-all system seldom goes well for long, and allowing the states to innovate and experiment has generally benefited our nation in the long run.

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In no way should the government force private companies to share profits. Find a company that offers something like that if you wish and go work there.

Every time I’ve suggested this on other websites, there’s always someone like yourself who tells me what a bad idea it is, but never why. It’s always a knee-jerk “nuh-uh” without any kind of details to make the argument compelling.

Please, sincerely, tell me what the potential risks and downside are to this idea? I wouldn’t have bothered posting it if some Henry Ford type and implemented it and made it a competitive practice like how the 40-hour 5-day workweek was normalized.

The problem with a ‘mandatory bonus’ is two fold.

On the one hand, either the company can choose who the bonuses go to, in which case it’s easy to game the system through preferential treatment that is in no way guaranteed to be based on real merit.

On the other hand, if it’s based on a preset standard, you run into the usual problems that come with socialist-style systems - the people who gain the most are those who figure out how to earn more by doing less work.

I feel like you only read the first paragraph and didn’t bother continuing. I both gave a suggestion as to how the system might be implement (profit share is distributed based on days an employee worked compared to total man-days worked overall) and ended by saying that each state should figure out the how’s and when’s, since one-size-fits-all policy implementation rarely ends well and states being allowed to experiment is how the best policies become normalized nationwide. Since the only federal preset is what percentage of profit is shared, a state or company is more free to find a system which benefits them.

Unlike socialism, the workers would be incentivized to police each other for laziness, as any slackers would directly affect THEIR payout by impacting the company’s overall profit and thus cutting into how much is shared. The issue with socialist preset standards is that no one has any incentive to hold anyone else accountable for bad work, since everyone gets paid the same regardless of how well they do or how much is produced. THAT is why socialist states are so inefficient and poor.

Though, I congratulate you on being the first naysayer (here or anywhere else) to actually offer a rebuttal with counterpoints and details, rather than just telling me what a lazy bum I am for thinking people should get a piece of the action they helped make.

First, the idea of man-hours distribution fits into the ‘preset standard’ category I already addressed.

Second, if you’re relying on states to set the rules on this, why make it federal policy at all and not just try implementing it on a state-by-state level?

Third, I’ve worked for a company that offered company-wide bonuses for good sales performance, so I know for a fact that the idea of workers trying to police each other over bonuses does not work in practice. Realistically, employees do not have a way of policing their peers, they require higher-ups to actually implement any kind of practical policing.

I’ll tell you why: its a private business and I’ll run it the way I see fit. Some companies do have profit sharing. Some don’t. If you want it, go to the ones who offer it. Government directing details of how companies run is literally fascism, and has no place in the American system.

Having any standard at all isn’t socialist. What makes socialist policies such failures is that everyone is paid exactly the same regardless of anything they do that doesn’t get them fired. That’s actually how most entry-level workers in places like McDonald’s or Wal-Mart feel: nothing they do will net them anything extra, so they don’t give anything extra, just the bare minimum to keep from being fired or disciplined. There is no discretion, no proportion, nothing that would increase or decrease the workers’ payout no matter their good performance, hence why so many socialists nations are lousy with both corruption and bad products (and why so many fast food places aren’t as clean or sparkly as restaurants).

Under profit sharing, whatever form the distribution would take, so long as all employees get a cut, then they have a direct incentive to work better. Normal bonuses are based partially on management discretion, same as any other normal pay increase, so the workers are not guaranteed more money the way profit sharing does. More importantly, the performance of other workers does not directly affect any individuals’ reception of their own bonus. That’s why performance bonuses don’t yield the same universal efficiency: if a worker sees another worker performing badly, the only motive they’d have to police or help them would be empathy. Under profit sharing, that worker has a vested interest in helping out their less-skilled peers because they know their peers’ performance is guaranteed to directly affect their own bottom line.

You should read up more on fascism before decrying any regulation or economic law that mandates a business practice as “literally fascism”. Hyperregulation is fascism. They’d lay out so many laws and rules that the only option left would be to do what the party wanted, how it wanted, with whom it wanted you to do it with. Then, when that inevitably failed, the fact the company was still “private” would give the party a scapegoat to drag before a hearing and subsequently replace. A broad 20% profit sharing policy, leaving you and every other business owner with total freedom to choose your clients and what fees you charge, your workers and their wages, what materials you work with, and what products you invest in, is not fascism.

As for “I’ll run it the way I see fit”, arguing pure moralism in the face of practicality is why so many are alienated from socialism and fascism to begin with, why both systems require crackdowns on free speech, but it’s also what drives people to them. If presented with a problem of “The workers are unhappy and thus are likely to vote for things that sound nice but are actually against their own interests in the broader sense”, giving an answer of “Don’t care, leave me alone, it’s not my problem” will only work until the persons with said problem decide to make it your problem.

Or, to put it another way, the people who push for higher minimum wage are never going to be convinced by a finger-flip and a “I’ll do what I want.” You can continue to make that argument towards them until their numbers swell enough to get their way, or you can offer them an alternative that actually, provably, benefits all persons, not just big business.

Yes, I’d prefer not having to resort to either and being able to let market forces normalize profit sharing. However, since market forces have been continually stifled by increasing regulation, not to mention market forces are what implemented the post-1980s corporate structure in big business to begin with, that is not likely to happen in a timely enough manner to stop workers from voting against their own interests, as they so often do when times are hard and they need a way to stay above water.

There is no reasonable excuse why this should be exempt from all taxes that any other pay type would be subject to since it is still a form of wages!

Profit sharing plans are generally in lieu of pension plan contributions and defer taxes on the principal and the earned interest until a withdrawal is made, usually upon retirement.

I haven’t seen a profit sharing plan that didn’t act like a pension plan where you don’t get to take the money out until you retire. I think you are trying to qualify a yearly bonus as a profit sharing plan. There are legal/IRS qualifications on profit sharing plans. From my experience having had a profit sharing plan myself, you can’t just withdraw money from your account when you need it since it’s usually under the control of the company or some outside source.

And honestly, businesses aren’t interested in helping their employees leave to start their own businesses.

Again, I know from experience that what you’re theorizing doesn’t work in practice.

There is nothing to distinguish your theoretical process from the process you are criticizing other than making it mandatory and giving the responsibility of making the decisions to someone outside the company, both of which make your process worse than whatever process may already be in place.

So yeah, it’s basically the worst elements of socialism.

Then that’s not profit sharing. A pension by any other name is still a pension. What worked for the Shah’s workforce was being given the profit share directly, so the workers could spend it immediately on improving their lives, paying their bills, helping their family, and starting their own businesses. If Iran had done that, half of those workers would never have been able to get their money before the Shah was overthrown. Roddy Piper infamously gave an interview where he talked about needing his pension/401k money, not being able to access it, and thus his need to keep wrestling into his 50s and, most morbidly of all, correctly predicting that he would not live to see 65.

I don’t want people to end up in a Roddy Piper situation. A true profit sharing program would make it their money, so they should be able to access it when they need it. These legal/IRS qualifications you talk about sound like they need to be binned alongside other pointless overcomplication in our economic laws.

And yeah, businesses are never interested in fostering competition. That’s why they lobby the government to pass more bureaucratic regulation and gum up the process of competing, raising the bar higher and higher until they’re safely entrenched in their state-sanctioned monopoly or oligopoly. That’s why I specified that the details of how and when the profits are shared should be left to the states to figure out. What’s good for Wyoming isn’t necessarily good for New Mexico, and it would allow the voters in each state to more easily hold the people in charge of overseeing and making the law accountable.

Well, what I’m theorizing isn’t theory, because it’s been put into practice both by private companies and by at least one recognized national government. In all instances where it’s been done as I laid it out, where people are periodically and directly given a portion of the profit they contributed to making, profit and productivity overall increased. I suspect we might’ve seen it organically rise here in the U.S. after the success Iran demonstrated in the 1970s, if

  1. the Ayatollah hadn’t ousted the Shah, and
  2. Jack Welch hadn’t come along in the 1980s and pioneered the modern corporate culture.

But, I digress. The alternative as I see it is to do nothing, watch as the working class grow angrier about how they don’t have the same wealth or economic mobility that their parents and grandparents did, until it explodes into something akin to the French or Russian Revolutions. Then, the workers vote for policies that are infinitely more self-harming but seem good, right up until the facade of altruistic leadership gives way to the iron fist of totalitarianism, true socialism.

The defining characteristic of socialism is that every aspect of production, including the people, must be managed by or according to the direct orders of the state. No options, no alternatives, just one way and one way only for everyone. There’s more to socialism than mere business regulation. We’ve been gradually working our way towards that, with the corporatocracy having controlled our leaders for the better part of the last 30 years, so I don’t know why you think my proposal is more insidious than the socialist centralization of commerce that’s already been happening.

What I propose leaves people options. It boils down to, “However you decide to make your money, after you’ve made it, spare a cut to all the little people who worked the machines and hit the pavement to get you that money.” It’s reactive regulation, reactive on the presumption that a business actually succeed before it be regulated. That’s in contrast to all the proactive regulation on the books, where a business owner must follow a set of steps and approvals before they can so much as sell a T-shirt.

At the core of your argument is that you’re still trying to have it both ways.

You have already admitted that the method of how the profits are distributed would need to be left to a state-by-state system.

Why not then go a step further and try to implement the mandatory profit sharing policy through a state-by-state process instead of trying to implementing it on a federal level?

That doesn’t address the problem of lack of work ethic, which is rampant today! . Bonuses do. I think the majority of bosses will gladly pay bonuses if they see superior effort and a great work ethic. They’d be very stupid not to. Having a guaranteed profit sharing plan means some will ride on the efforts of others.

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