do you know what a lame duck session is?
Minimum should be ONE term, not two.
Why would less qualified candidates run if there are no perks or privileges?
If the people in a particular state do not like that a particular senator is not voting in the state’s interest, they raise Cain with the state legislature until they recall him or her. The people lose control with the 17th Amendment.
I swear, every time we go against what the founders set up—we pay! The senators don’t—the people do. The founders knew what they were doing and why. We screw it up. Like term limits would.
Ps: you are right! NOW senators DO pay more attention to the party than to the state they are supposed to represent. The 17th amendment brought that about—the people got the shaft again. And it will happen again with a term limits amendment. EVERY “amendment that SOUNDS so great always takes power from the people!.
THEN, votethem out!!!
This will help us so much. Less corruption and money laundering
Ah, I see. That unfortunately for you I disagree. @Hopinow
The founding of our Nation was fraught with many compromises that do not mirror the principles of liberty and freedom portrayed by the Constitution or our ideology.
If your concern is that citizens do not have the power to remove members of Congress at the whim of the people, than my suggestion-along with Congressional Terms-would be some sort of petition clause to give the people the power to remove a member of Congress without the legislature, and a sunset clause for political party organization.
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Congress per the Constitution can ‘…with the concurrence of two-thirds, expel a member’ of the Senate. Let’s also grant this exact power to the people, per petition. That way Senators are still elected by the People, and not a legislature.
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Members of Congress should be limited to ‘single issue platform’ when organizing under a political party. Members of Congress otherwise should function under non-partisan representation of their peers.
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Term Limits for Federal Congress would limit the amount of time Members of Congress have to achieve their goals, destroying the ‘do nothing’ mentality of our current ‘aristocrats’.
The Nation and Constitution was created in such a manner that it was intended to be amended and evolve. Alexis de Tocqueville, a Frenchman visiting the US during the 1830s and '40s wrote that due to the ideology of Liberty and Freedom, one of the founding principles of the US was inevitably incompatible with the American Republic; Slavery.
To quote you:
EVERY “amendment that SOUNDS so great always takes power from the people!.
The 3/5ths comprimise is a protion of the Constitution that was crafted by our founders, yet directly limits the power of the people.
There are much greater issues, like Reapportionment of Representatives or Median Pay for Members of Congress.
Then, VOTE THEM OUT!
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Who are the people of the states more close to?
The state legislature or the federal? I think you would agree that it is the state. How many emails do you get from senators from OTHER STATES during federal elections asking for funding? If you are like everyone else you get plenty.
I say keep it simple and in the hands of the people of the state by repealing the seventeenth amendment. States are more prone to listen to the people than is the federal legislature. That would protect us from the horrors of a SIX YEAR lame duck session. Are you aware of what even ONE lame duck can do?
If so, then consider what 30-40% of lame ducks at the exact SAME time have the capacity to do. With term limits this is the fiasco that is created.
With the ballot box being “term limits”such is avoided.
As much as I love the idea of our country being led by “Christians,” we’ve just had a huge part of our nation, calling themselves such, and supporting the murder of innocent babies. That would also go against our first amendment.
I think you may have a misconception.
These are the parts of Article I, Clauses 1 & 2-the relevant parts to the 17th Amendment-of the original Constitution and the changes made:
‘The Senate of the United States shall be composed of two Senators from each State, chosen by the Legislature thereof, for six Years; and each Senator shall have one Vote.’
‘…if Vacancies happen by Resignation, or otherwise, during the Recess of the Legislature of any State, the Executive thereof may make temporary Appointments until the next Meeting of the Legislature, which shall then fill such Vacancies.’
The 17th Amendment changes the wording as such:
‘The Senate of the United States shall be composed of two Senators from each State, elected by the people thereof, for six years; and each Senator shall have one vote. The electors in each State shall have the qualifications requisite for electors of the most numerous branch of the State legislatures.’
‘When vacancies happen in the representation of any State in the Senate, the executive authority of such State shall issue writs of election to fill such vacancies: Provided, That the legislature of any State may empower the executive thereof to make temporary appointments until the people fill the vacancies by election as the legislature may direct.’
The 17th Amendment makes the following key wording changes:
‘chosen by the Legislature thereof’
to →
‘elected by the people thereof’
with the addition of:
‘The electors in each State shall have the qualifications requisite for electors of the most numerous branch of the State legislatures.’
These parts of the Clauses above ^ are simply opening the seats of the Senate to a General Election instead of a legislative appointment. The second part is just a election requirement standardization clause for multi-chambered State Senates and the Federal Senate.
Also:
‘…during the Recess of the Legislature of any State, the Executive thereof may make temporary Appointments until the next Meeting of the Legislature, which shall then fill such Vacancies.’
to →
Provided, That the legislature of any State may empower the executive thereof to make temporary appointments until the people fill the vacancies by election as the legislature may direct.’
Now here I see an issue. The 17th Amendment doesn’t necessarily require that any State legislature empower the executive to make a temporary appointment like the original clause did.
‘Provided, That the legislature of any State may empower the executive thereof…’
It also extends the amount of time the appointment has in office before an actual elected official gets in office.
‘until the people fill the vacancies by election as the legislature may direct.’
A key change from the original:
‘…during the Recess of the Legislature of any State, the Executive thereof may make temporary Appointments until the next Meeting of the Legislature, which shall then fill such Vacancies.’
The original vacancy appointment clause required that the executive preform their duty at the next recess of each State’s legislature, and that the next meeting-not the next election period-the legislature would officially fill the vacancies.
I still disagree about term limits for Federal Congress. Of course we do not need to limit the abilities to create, and implement policy by creating too short of terms.
I strongly believe that any member of Congress that serve for longer that two and half decades without achieving their goal is either a career politician or a corrupt aristocrat. Neither of which belong.
If you have an issue with the impeachment process of the members of each State’s Senate or the Federal Senate, than you should create a proposal for a new Amendment in your home State, or a proposal for a new Constitutional Amendment that would better explain what you think the impeachment process should be like.
Currently it is up to the House to begin the Impeachment process. Only one senator has ever been removed. If you, or the people, want to see someone removed, you need to petition for a specfic person to be impeached. If needed sue your State legislature until your petition is enforced by the Supreme Court.
I recommend 12 years for Senate - three 4 year terms, 12 years for Representatives with four 3 year terms. In addition, wait 12 years until entering an industry aligned with their focus in government. Federal judges should also have term limits.
elected by the people thereof’
with the addition of:—-yes, and the individual STATE can no longer recall the Senator for mis-behavior. Before the seventeenth people had tighter control. They no longer do.
How? This Amendment has nothing to do with the impeachment of Senators, nor did Article I, Clause 2.
That is a entirely different process. Impeachment process begins in the House, federally or per State. If you, or the people, want to see someone removed, you need to petition for a specfic person to be impeached. If needed sue your State legislature until your petition is enforced by the Supreme Court.
our de jure constitution called for 2 state senators to be appointed by the state legislature.
Not “elected.”. today, since the 17th amendment, senators are FORCED to become “politicians”. Senators were to be statesmen NOT politicians. i fail to comprehend how you dont see this.
So your differing definition between ‘politician’ and ‘statesmen’ is whether they are elected or appointed?
There are better ways to prevent a citizen from becoming a career politician than switching back to a system of appointment-by-committee.
The ‘elected’ part of the 17th Amendment is what I support, I don’t see how I wouldn’t be considered a ‘statesman’ if I were to run on a non-partisan platform based on my State’s needs-while also avoiding turning it into a career. Have a goal → achieve or fail → move on.
You support the potential life-long continual appointment of the same individuals to represent our States. It’s not that I don’t understand, I disagree.
We cannot rely on politicians to set the precedent. There must be restrictions on their terms in office, and their seats must be decided by the People, not appointment-by-committee.
Thanks for allowing the two of us to have such a civil debate 
We the people ARE ones of the several states!
We look to our respective states for genuine representation. The 17th took that away. Do you know the difference in a statesman and a politician? Do you know the value in keeping our Senators in fed Congress on a tight, accountable leash? Sans the 17th amendment we would still have that.
I agree that 2 to 4 years is the best time to serve. This position should be chosen like jury duty instead of having a vote. All people are capable of reading and deciding if it’s a good idea. Each representative can have a platform where his constituents can vote on the ideas.
Let the people decide. Use a platform similar to this one. The senator or rep is just the person to inform constituents of what is going on, and what needs to be voted on.