What you stated is the objective difference between someone selling snake oil & someone who cares about you
If we could read their mind, then certainly, we could tell the difference
But we can’t read minds - and obviously snake oil salesmen are quite good at what they do - their success is based on their ability to bullshit & get you to believe it
So again, if I present you to 2 people, how do you know the difference? (by “you”, I don’t mean you personally; I mean “the public”)
@iBringBalance you presume too much about who I trust - I don’t
I presume nothing about you, as this is not about you - this is about people in general & the fact that they can easily be duped
If you open the gates, it doesn’t just affect you - wouldn’t the idea of recognizing natural medicine be so that more people depend on it? How will you help people to tell the difference between a snake oil salesman & the real deal?
As for snake oil salesmen in modern medicine: yup, without a doubt, but that’s where an objective system helps us
Suppose an accredited doctor was prescribing literal snake oil to patients with stomach ailments, and a client is injured or dies:
An investigation ensues: the doctor was doing something against accepted/objective recommendations - they lose their license & can no longer take clients
Does that mean no doctor will ever try this? No, some will think they will get away with it (as is the case today) - but it filters out a lot of them, even if not all
We are so grateful for healers such as yourself! I have hope that as we move out of this darkness, folks like you will be recognized and celebrated for all of the blessings you bring. I have no faith whatsoever in the medical establishment and avoid them at all costs. How comforting to know that there are doctors like you whom I could trust!
I am right there with you! I so sick and tired of having the knowledge to help ad yet having to walk a tight rope to do so. I am also frustrated by how many truly believe they have to be on drugs as they age or need drugs to lose weight. We desperately need natural health to be recognized so we can start turning the tide of sickness and ailments that people are dealing with!
Disagree because the whole system is corrupted regarding licensing - forcing labeling, forcing informed consent, forcing then people to take ownership = avoiding snake oil.
Yes Zee, as I wrote reply to other person in exchange: force ingredient labeling, force informed consent ***** see my other posting regarding Care Freedom Act and a comprehensive definition of informed consent to make legal, and people need to make adult, consented, researched decisions for themselves again = freedom of choice.
No, the government is going after it to shut it esp. in Florida and may have been murdered. NO to naturopathic licensing by the government.
I get the distrust in goverment (I think everyone on this forum probably does, or we wouldn’t be here 
)
Certainly the way they handled COVID was absolutely terrible
But you have to remember a big part of why that was: corporate capture, and the fact that private business uses government to do its dirty work
Don’t miss the important detail there: private business! Pfizer, purdue pharma, etc. are the real bad guys
Those are the guys that you want to be able to sell snake oil unfettered?
I think you are looking at this wrong. Those of us who have pursued Natural Health care have more time and learning invested than most doctors. We have a better comprehension of lifestyle, diet and homeostasis than any doctor I have encountered. Natural health is just that. It is dealing with the imbalances of the body finding the herbs or homeopathy needed to bring back that balance. Herbs are food, homeopathy is energy medicine. Both are amazing tools that give the body what is missing. There is sooooo much history to the effectiveness of herbs. I have books upon books upon books. If you have not studied it you will not understand it. Same with homeopathy, there was once upon a time ago hospitals that used homeopathy during epidemics! Check history the knowledge is there and those who have a passion for it are very knowledgeable!
You don’t need states to recognize natural medicine for what you are saying
You’ve been doing it, right? Did it need to be recognized?
The proposal here, to have states recognize, is somewhat a stamp of approval, which then requires an objective measurement
Witch doctors also theoretically had knowledge, did they not? Does that mean they should be recognized?
And don’t dismiss witch doctors - fact is, most of what they did was the placebo effect, which works so well that even modern medicine has fallen prey to it
But if a state is going to recognize it, shouldn’t it be more than that?
I am not looking for state recognition, I am looking for the knowledge and education I have to be acknowledged so I do not have to walk a tight rope. No I help very few since it has become very dangerous to do so. I no longer have an office. I would like to have my board certification and degree recognized. If it has to be by the state I have no issue with that but I would like to see it be a bit bigger then as far an acknowledgment of knowledge board certification and degree.
100% of this.
People who have this knowledge, and this training, are always at risk of being prosecuted by those that regulate and believe only in the allopathic method, AMA, and big-money-medicine backed regulations/agencies. White-coated folks jealously defend what they believe is their territory. Even my advanced-medical-degree health professionals who aren’t MDs are at risk - never mind that they are far more educated in the processes they address than the majority of MDs.
That should absolutely stop. For both the non-MD advanced-degreed professionals and the natural medicine ones.
Natural medicine solves a LOT of issues that allopathic methods and education do not. And yet those professionals do not have the same ‘right to practice’ and recognition of their knowledge, training, and proffesional skills that the MD who graduated last-in-their-class or has many malpractice claims has.
Witch Doctor (noun)
1. In certain traditional cultures, especially in Africa, a sorcerer or shamanistic healer.
2. A person who is believed to heal through magical powers; a shaman.
3. Someone who is believed to heal through magical powers.
Your statement pejoratively equates natural medicine with “witch doctors”.
Specifically, I find “theoretically had knowledge” to be clear indication that you’re think they did NOT. And IIRC you’ve used “snake oil” similarly as well.
The fact that “witch doctors” or their less-pejorative “medicine man/woman” did not have AMA-blessed degrees and federally-recognized licenses does NOT mean they had no useful medical knowledge or that they were incapable of treating illnesses and health conditions, or that they were sham artists bilking their communities and relying on placebo effect.
Something north of 25% of western pharmacology is based on traditional medicine, including use of plants, plant compounds, and the constituents and combinations of constituents in those folk and traditional medicines. My guess is that eastern / Chinese medicine would move that % up quite a bit as they do actively pursue traditional medicine as a source of knowledge to be expanded on, not rejected as hocus-pocus.
Anyway, it’s my observation that you bring a clear bias on this that belies your ‘brings balance’ moniker, at least on this topic. In service of bringing balance, perhaps reconsider your tone of general dismissal of the value of traditional and natural methods, and your insistence that the only path to understanding value is the one that biases towards AMA approved products and methods.
Peace out.
Listen to great talks by Dr. David Martin re: pharma complex is Gov - he outlines the shell companies/front of intelligence agencies. Big pharma is pass through in some instances of intelligence agencies - he outlines better with patent papertrial. Bottom line, we the people need to be self governed again and laws in place to protect us from corrupt government - biopharmaceutical complex which included private companies embedded with government. We need to remove all corporate lobbyistss as one step.
History, Rockefeller discredited natuopath to build out AMA to sell his petroleum = pharma (pharmakeia–an abstract noun meaning sorcery, witchcraft in modern terms). Federal Laws need to protect people from government - not necessarily to protect stupidity, individuals will always do stupid things). Part of the issue is trying to create laws to protect stupid (e.g. label to say don’t drink shampoo, remove baby before folding up a stroller…) Some people will always run to “snake oil” or con men. “You cannot con an honest man” is the general go to; and if we make a healthier society with banning toxic poisening without informed consent, we will greatly reduce desperation and continued mental illness.
I think that is one of the most important things that could be said.
I 100% agree.
I think this is where @iBringBalance and I fundamentally - and perhaps unresolvably - diasagree. If I’ve understood his many posts, he believes government’s responsibility is to protect people from themselves.
I absolutely have the opposite view. Like you @40yrhealthcareexpert , I think the people need to be protected from the fed, and that legislation needs to be in place to restrain the government, for the safety of the people.
Yes.
Desperate people do increasingly desperate things. Having an increasingly healthy population … something our current system is not producing… would lead to far less use of ineffective or fraudulent methods.
Absolutely not - government should not protect people from themselves
Government should be a safety net so we don’t fall to our doom (things like UBI, disallowing people to go bankrupt having to have life-saving medical care)
More importanntly, government should protect us from others - like snake oil salesmen, or murderers
Take, for instance, drugs (medicinal or otherwise) - no government belongs telling people what to do. Want to go do it? Do it! It’s not the government’s place to tell you “it’s illegal”
But when someone convinces you to do something by telling lies, it is the government’s job to try to prevent that
Everyone has biases - mine is that beliefs get us nowhere, but verifiable truths do
Human beings have believed lots of things over millenia, and they’ve gotten us nowhere
Scientific knowledge, which came from experiments & provable hypothesis, is what gave us things like the computer or smart phone we’re both currently writing on - they’ve moved us forward
They also have detriment, without a doubt - look at what social networks have done
The key is that people should be allowed to do whatever they feel like, as long as it’s not hurting others
But when people, whether they’re AMA doctors, or herbal doctors, or witch doctors, end up causing harm, they need to be held accountable
Even more importantly, the government should try to minimize how much damage they can do before they even start, through things like standards
When you apply “standards” that are not appropriate measures of traditional medicine to traditional medicine so the government can try to “minimize the damage” for techniques and processes the government does not endorse or understand, then the goverment is causing me harm by preventing my access to my chosen methods of improving my health.
And that is an entirely unacceptable use of government.
That is precisely the point we are making.
We have generations now that don’t understand: